Pinch collars made of leather (www.lcsupply.com/Product/Collars-Leads-Check-Cords/Leather-Pinch-Collar---23-Inch.html) and nylon (www.scottsdog.com/focowisp.html).  The guy I have been working with to train Ringo for birds introduced me to the pinch collars in the links above.  I really like them as they work just as well as the metal pinch collars and are easier to get on an off.  They also look nicer (not so much like something from the Spanish Inquisition.)  Just wanted to post them again as some of you may also like them. 

"By any means necessary" right Bev?

With Rogan at this age I used a clicker to balance out all the "AAAGGHH- NO!!!" he seemed to generate, lol. He's actually very smart and pretty food motivated, so he really thought the clicker stuff was fun. He also knows more tricks than any of our other dogs- he gets a real charge out of being the center of the party and it reinforces actually doing what he's told.

Having said that, I would NEVER EVER recommend counting on ignoring bad behavior in hopes that it will naturally extinguish with this type of dog. This is something I see recommended instead of correction over and over with the 100% positive training methods (including clicker training) that have become popular as of late. Remember that nobody gets sued or into deep vet bills or put to sleep because a dolphin bit someone or destroyed the neighbor's property! With softer, less motivated, or really handler-centric dogs it may work... but really high energy/high drive/indipendant dogs take ignoring their antics as a green light on a wide open highway. They sure as heck don't NEED human approval to discover or enjoy their "fun".

IMO it's all about keeping one step ahead of the rascals, keeping things fun and fast paced and sufficiently challenging that their brain cells are groomed towards positive ends more often than negative, but also making the boundries clear and 100% immovable. My observation is that battles can only be avoided up to a point with these types... they'll press you hard, especially during the 'teenage' stage', and you've GOT to win.

I will gladly deal with this over shyness any day though. These really super nutty types can be a whole lot of fun and really rewarding to work with once they get moving in the right direction. When that energy is channeled productively the result is SuperDog.

P.S. He can bark at the girls all day. They'll ignore him entirely, which cannot be resisted, lol.

Absolutely Meg.

And I agree 100% with the positive and negative reinforcement.  Sometimes you just have to correct.  If you read my blog on Ringo you will know that is other name is "Ringo No."  The hard part is remembering to praise with these dogs that start out always challenging.  So, don't forget that either.  I find with Ringo 1) I have to be strong and consistent, 2) he generally tests me at least 3 times before he decides I really mean it, but 3) he is a blast to work with.  Can't wait to hear your evaluation Meg.

I am not a politically correct person either and no it did not work. He slammed Charlie hard enough that it made him go down hard and ending up under this guys feet and he stepped on him. This guy is 220+ pounds and he didn't try and avoid stepping on Charlie when Charlie went down. I believe in being the dominate person and your dogs being submissive to you but this was to far he has never met Charlie. So no it did not work.

I am just wondering if this could hurt a puppy?

That's how I stop pups from jumping. Granted you have to be careful in judging how much force you use because the point is not to truly hurt the dog, just to make jumping a less than pleasurable experience. A big strong guy would have to be careful, and he should have cleared it with you.

Jean