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Dan_ploof
 JH Posts:28

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| 06/23/2009 3:51 PM |
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Hello, my wife and I recently about three weeks ago adopted a gsp hound mix from a local shelter. He is five years olf. He were working on his issues ( housetraining, basic commands, and leash walking) we were making progress, but he is very bad off leash and has run away many times (broke a collar, and two times got out of different dog parks (both should never have happened however)). He was to much for my wife as she is home all day long with our toddler and just couldnt work enough with him, so we had to bring him back to the shelter. We fear he will be put down, as this is his second time being brought back and he is a very good boy, kind, gentle, and very loving and we would hate to see this happen, so if anybody knows anybody or a rescue that would be willing to take him please let us know as he doesn't deserve that fate he is a good boy and can and will make a great pet with some work.
Please help this poor boy find the home he deserves |
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Dan_ploof
 JH Posts:28

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| 06/23/2009 3:54 PM |
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sorry forgot to add that he is at the local humane society in Utica Ny |
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singltrak Las Cruces, NM
 MH Posts:1149


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| 06/23/2009 5:18 PM |
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| Personally, I think you have given up too soon. I would not take any new dog out for a walk or to a dog park and turn him loose and expect him to listen to you. You need to work in a fenced yard (your own) and only do a little at a time. How can he be able to understand the basics if he doesn't even really know you and has not had a chance to learn that you are his forever home ? All the wanting in the world won't help if you go out and assume the dog will come back to you. If he's already been in the shelter once then the odds are that he has no attachments to anyone and thinks that nothing he does is right. I'm sorry if this sounds too judgmental, but that dog depended on you. JMHO. |
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Look to the Past, Breed for the Future |
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Dan_ploof
 JH Posts:28

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| 06/23/2009 5:56 PM |
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yes i would say that was to judgemental...we tried the fence, he got out, we tried the dog park got out, he was clawing up the house, even on leash outside all he wanted was to go. you could not get his attention, We brought with with us to our inlaws this past weekend, got out of the house, she has two GSP's and she tried to work with him and nothing, he just wants to run, and seeing as we have a BABY it makes it a little bit hard to work with him for hours a day, when all he wanted to do was runaway. he didnt want to run, he wanted to runaway. i walked him till he didnt want to walk anymore and still nothing nothing at all. even after running away and being picked up after running for 4 hours he still tried to get out and run. so yes i would say you were to judgemental and you should stick to the task at hand and help try to find him a new home as he deserves one as much as your dogs do. he needs somebody who can spend hours a day with him and we just dont have that time...remember the baby!!! |
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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 06/23/2009 6:25 PM |
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I don't understand... You "had to" bring him back to the shelter and NOW you want someone to help bail him out? There were no other options, like contacting rescues or foster organizations yourself, or making flyers? Talking to your vet, trainers, pet stores, to see if anyone can help place him, and find a way to put up with him until then? I think you took responsibility for him when you got him, you owed him at least that much, finding a home that works better for him BEFORE you brought him back to the shelter when you KNEW his time there is limited. I would rather cut my own head off before I hand over a dog to a shelter. I hate to be harsh but gee, this is very upsetting. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Deb Orpen
 MH Posts:168


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| 06/23/2009 7:38 PM |
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Dan,
While your baby is napping, please go online and do a google search with your zip code on all-breed rescue groups. Contact them all and check Petfinder as well. Or ask the shelter if you can sponsor this dog in some way to buy him time and make him a more adoptable prospect.
These are tough times for rescue programs and shelters with the added burden of more displaced animals from foreclosures, job losses, etc.
Deb Orpen |
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Ellegirl
 JH Posts:25

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| 06/23/2009 9:17 PM |
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Let me just give you a little background. My daughter goes to nursing school, has a full time job and a fifteen month old baby. Dan also works full time. They also have a rescue lab that is now almost two and two cats. It was Dayle's decision to "rescue" max from the shelter. She loves my 2 shorthairs and could not imagine them being in a shelter. So long story short she rescued max, very first day he broke the leash and bolted. After calling shelter, police etc.he was found four hours later and brought back to the shelter. Dayle and Dan picked him up as soon as they called.
I was the one that suggested that they join the shorthair forum for some advice on how to handle max. Last weekend My hubby and I went to visit them in NY. I was excited to meet Max and see if I could help in any way. I took him for a walk and tried to get his attention but to no avail until I took the special treats I brought from home He was highly food motivated so we worked on sits and downs. He needed lots of work but that takes lots of patience and time. I honestly think they had good intentions but got way in over their head.
On Sunday we found a dog park that had just opened two weeks prior. We thought wow this will be great we can take max and let him off leash in a safe place. (Dayle and Dan do not have a fenced in backyard) Wrong...there was a section where the fence came up about a foot off the ground and before we could do anythig he was gone. Called the necessary people again to let them know what happened. My husband and I drove back to vermont hoping he would be found okay. Sure enough four hours later a women found him and coaxed him with a piece of steak.
This weekend the kids came to vermont with max as we had a potential adopter wanting to meet him. We took him to a dog park up here and made sure it was secure. We met the guy who absolutely loved max, we told him everything we could about him, no surprises. All of a sudden people came in at the other end of the park and left the gate open. Max took off once again with all of us in tow. We called the necessary people and an hour later he was waiting for us at the police station. The guy did not want to deal with a bolter sooo what to do?
This was not an easy decision for Dayle or Dan to return Max. They are young and I think they learned a very valuable lesson. There hearts were in the right place just didn't realize the work it takes to help a dog like this. When they did drop him off the girl taht worked there said "don't feel bad this is the fifth time he's been returned, all for the same reason."
We did contact a rescue group to see if they could help, they already knew about max. Also had Two other people interested in him, never called back-one was a musher-to bad that might of worked.
So That's the story, hope you all get a better picture of the whole situation. |
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Dan_ploof
 JH Posts:28

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| 06/23/2009 9:21 PM |
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First tessaGA maybe you should think a little more clearly before you comment. did the thought that perhaps we may have contacted rescues, trainers, and all that. hmm...oh yea we did. They all said no room. we were only fostering this dog to try to get him into a new and perm. home. I loved this dog and did not want to get rid of him, but the stress for my wife dealing with our baby daughter with a dog that did whatever it wanted just wasnt working anymore. we have ads on craigslist, petfinder and others to find him a good home. Maybe all he needs is somebody like you, you oviously has nothing better to do. if you love dogs so much maybe you should take him wouldnt want you to loose your head over it. We had no choice, he couldnt even be outside without going out of control, and with one dog already and a baby, it just wasnt working anymore. I have been around these dogs for a while, and knew they were a lot of work, but this one was worse then i could have imagined in our current cituation. We have talked to many people and no luck and i will not give up on this dog as he deserves a life as well, we just do not have the hours a day or money that you may to get him to where he needs to be, but he can get there i have no doubt with the right person he will be fine, which is why i was posting here, thinking hey all these GSP people somebody must have a good idea or a way to help, but all i get is grief for trying to do the right thing by my family. TO BAD. so next time before you get all high and mighty think a little more clearly and outside the box. thank you Hey Deb. We have gone on petfinder and have ads on a lot of other sites and no luck. he just needs somebody with a lot of time and he can be a very good dog. we tried all we could, just wasnt working for my family, which comes first. I did not get this dog with this intention, but he is just to intense and one minded we just couldnt do it with our current situation. although he is at the shelter, we havent given up on him and never will, we are doing all we can to find him a good home, as was our original plan when we got him to begin with, as we couldnt stand to see him in the shelter, and it breaks my heart to see him in there, wish there was another way, but theres not, we did more then most people would have we tried, looked for options and tried even harder. thank you To all those who understand that I am only trying to do the best for this dog than thank you, if you dont, then oviously you dont love GSPs as much as you claim. |
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Travis.Price NE Ohio
 MH Posts:70


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| 06/23/2009 9:29 PM |
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Dan,
What a bummer. I am sorry to hear that it has been such a bad situation, i can imagine that it must be taking a toll on your whole home right now. hopefully things will work out. |
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Dan_ploof
 JH Posts:28

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| 06/23/2009 9:36 PM |
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it is a bad situation and it is taking its toll on me. i wish my little man was with me right now, but it was too much for my wife during the day as he was out of control and not enough time to train him. It kills me to see him locked up like that, which is why i am trying to do my best to get him adopted as he is a good dog, just needs a lot of training time, that i wish i could have given him, but didnt get the chance. thank you |
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singltrak Las Cruces, NM
 MH Posts:1149


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| 06/23/2009 10:16 PM |
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Thanks, Ellegirl for clarifying the situation. Dan, I think you need to take a step back and realize that people who didn't jump as high as you thought they should have have pretty darned full plates too. I'm sorry that this issue with the pup from the shelter didn't work out. It is a very hard job working with rescue, as many of us know all too well. There's really nothing to be accomplished by telling someone you know nothing about (TessaGA) that she has nothing better to do than to be high and mighty. No doubt you are frustrated, and angry, and I don't blame you but don't kill the messenger. You are dealing on this forum with some pretty experienced dog folks who have a lot of expertise and good thoughts. Thanks for your input and good luck with finding a forever home for Max. Phyllis |
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Look to the Past, Breed for the Future |
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Dan_ploof
 JH Posts:28

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| 06/23/2009 11:48 PM |
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Hello, This is the wife talking. I love dogs. I love all dogs. And I couldn't bear to bring him back to the shelter with the thought that he might be put down. It breaks my heart. For some of you to send your hate through your messages just kills me. If you knew me, this was the hardest decision I have made in a long time. I promised my parents if i ever saw a GSP in a shelter I would foster them until I could find a home. I couldn't do it. Max bolted four times in two weeks. He's got hound in him and a one track mind. I thought I could do it, but I couldn't. I have talked to gsp rescues throughout new york and new england, so for those who think I didn't try, well they already knew about him and his problems. Thus the reason why he wasn't rescued by the groups. He needs room to run and a task to perform. When he's gone, he doesn't look back. It upsets me that I ask my husband to write a post about Max, and this is how we get treated? Like I don't care about animals. Have some of you no shame? Obviously some of you have nothing better to do than ridicule others for their foolish decision, which mine was. I should have really considered it before I went through on it. That is my fault. But don't kick me when I am down. My whole heart is for the best interest of the dog. I want him to be happy and healthy. And as for the lady who said she would cut off her head then give it to a shelter, get over yourself. I was an idiot, but I love animals, but I now know I cannot save them all. Any suggestions on where I could bring Max would be great. I thank all of you for your advice and support, and I stress again that this was a hard decision I had to make. Try to understand. |
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Dan_ploof
 JH Posts:28

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| 06/23/2009 11:52 PM |
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this is the wife...how dare you say something as cruel as that, when you know nothing about the dog. Quick to judge. I love animals, but i am not going to destroy my life over it. i cannot save everyone and how dare you make me feel like I am just one of those people who gets a dog and doesn't understand the breed. Maybe you should adopt him, since you have all the time in the world to be on this site. Think before you say something so harsh. Try to be in my shoes. |
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7843


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| 06/24/2009 12:37 AM |
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It doesn't matter what the breed, some dogs will bolt when let off leash. That said, all dogs can be trained to recall, and it doesn't take allot of time, but it does take a commitment. A commitment to keep the dog on a leash until they are trained. A commitment to train the recall and to work two or three times a day for 5 or 10 minutes each session. I do not think anyone is criticizing so much as they are confused as to why the dog was ever allowed into a situation where he could bolt, when it was known that he would bolt. My middle girl was a bolter. I knew and took proactive steps to correct it. First, I never ever let her off leash. Then I started training the recall on leash in a controlled environment. I worked every day for about a total of 30 minutes spread out over the day. I never let her off leash, period. Not in a dog park not in the front yard. No where. Once she was 100% in a controlled environment, I introduced distractions, but she was still on leash. Then I conditioned her to the ecollar. The final step was using the ecollar to reach out and touch her when she was off leash. She now has a perfect recall. It took about two years to get to it, but we did. I think the others, and I am also on that list, do not understand why you could not have at least tried to work with the dog if you were going to adopt him knowing he was a bolter. Thirty minutes a day is not much. Keeping a dog on a leash is not hard. You profess to love the dog and yet you do not appear in your posts to have tried to get to a reliable recall. That is what is confusing to folks. All of us have been challenged at one time or another by a dog that has been difficult, but we have also all committed to the time (and for one dog it is really not that much) that it takes to make that dog a good citizen. Everyone of us has challenges whether it is kids, a job, whatever, but we still find time to work with our dogs. From your post, it does not appear that you worked with your dog. It really sounds like you set your dog up to fail. That may be a false impression, but with what you originally posted it is very hard to tell. And please do not accuse anyone on this forum of not loving shorthairs as that is patently wrong. In fact that is the very reason Tessa and singltrak questioned you in the first place. We all love shorthairs and dogs in general to a fault. I would suggest that if you love this dog as much as you profess, consider giving him another chance. But if you do, this time keep him on a leash or check cord at all times. Do not let him out of the house without a leash, do not take him to a dog park without a leash, and above all enroll in an obedience class. Whether a hound or a shorthair, both breeds are smart dogs and absolutely capable of learning as long as you take the time to teach. Work on his recall, work on his sit and down, work on a stay. I think you will be amazed at how quickly he will learn if given a chance. Just don't let him off that leash until he is 100% on a recall in a variety of situations. Even then I would find a trainer that trains recall using an ecollar. Again, I think you will be amazed at what the dog is capable of learning. Whatever decision you make it is yours alone to make, but if you do decide to try again I know that people on this forum, and again I am one of them, will try to help you and the dog. We will be hear to listen if you get frustrated, we will be here to give advice if you need help, and when you have successes we will be here to cheer you on. Just think about it. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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gatsby SoCal
 SH Posts:50


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| 06/24/2009 2:15 AM |
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We all hate to see Max go back to the shelter but he may have issues that even a professional would have a hard time solving. The fact that he has been able to escape his confines several times and put himself and the public at risk is impossible to ignore. Think of the terrible accidents he could cause and the horrible injuries that could befall him. Although sad, and with no other alternative immediately available, giving him back to the shelter might be the most responsible thing to do. Hopefully it will give Max his best shot at permanent home also. |
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TMerkler Murfreesboro, TN
 MH Posts:217


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| 06/24/2009 6:50 AM |
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Dan & Wife, I am not a professional dog trainer by ANY means, just a common dog lover partial to GSP's. Let me tell you about a bolter. His name is Tyler aka Devil Dog. We rescued Tyler in Aug of 2005 from a NC shelter. When we got home with him to Ohio, he bolted on a weekly basis. He would squeeze past anyone as soon as the door opened. BAM he was gone... and he ran like the wind. He would be gone for hours before someone would spot him and call us so that we could retrieve him. We worked with him daily on leash, trying to get through to him that he was home now. My husband was on the verge of giving up, and each day I would tell him this will work, give him a chance to learn. Then we moved to TN, and things got worse. We have a "Peacock" farm right behind our house. YES, with a birdy dog this is a BIG distraction. He again was bolting every chance he got. We even have a 6ft privacy fence around a HUGE backyard. He was gone running on a weekly basis again. Needless to say I have a collection of peacock feathers now. Well the last time he bolted, he was gone for 14 hours. I called everyone I could think of, shelters, police, vets and even searched the farm out back from one end to the other and NO sign of him. After hours on end of searching, I sat on my front porch @ 11:30 at night crying and calling him to no avail. Then @ 3:30 am in the middle of a BAD thunderstorm, our Lab jumped up and went to the front door and would not leave, we looked out the window and saw nothing. Still the Lab would not go back to bed, so I open the door and guess who was home, soaking wet, there sat MY TYLER! He hasn't ran since, I honestly think he just needed to realize there is no place like home, and that is where the LOVE is. Long story short... It can be done. Please I understand that you were NOT adopting Max, Just fostering him until a forever home could be found. But I think his odds of finding that forever home are better if he is in foster and the prospective parents can see him in a home environment. Thank you for listening (reading) JMO |
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Terri (Dude's Mom 4ever) Dude - GSP (RIP 2005) Tyler - GSP Charlie - GSP Zeus - Pit-ador |
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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 06/24/2009 7:22 AM |
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First tessaGA maybe you should think a little more clearly Maybe you should think more clearly before taking on a dog with issues that has already been placed 4 times, in addition with what you already have on your plate (child, no fenced yard, etc). I commend you for having the compassion and giving this a try, like the owners before you, but it's not helping the dog much to be shoved from home to home. Maybe all he needs is somebody like you, you oviously has nothing better to do First: who are YOU to judge? Second: No I won't take him, because I know he'd be too much, especially with my setup and lifestyle. so next time before you get all high and mighty think a little more clearly and outside the box. Please read your first post: "he is very bad off leash, he ran away many times, he's a good boy, we brought him back to the shelter." No mention AT ALL that you have tried to place him before you did this. So don't call me high and mighty for getting upset over your matter-of-factly and lame first post that leaves out some important detail. We all know that you tried, you asked for advice before and you got plenty, including not to take this dog off a check cord even in parks, work on the recall consistently and give him time. I may be wrong, but I can't remember a post where you asked for suggestions on how to rehome this dog. The way your post reads is you brought him to the shelter and THEN asked us to help you bail him out. I am not saying this was an easy decision, I am just trying to wrap my brain about how someone can return a dog to a kill shelter. Your shelter may be more flexible, and I hope it is, but in our local shelter, owner-surrenders are the first ones to go, and usually only have about three days. I am mostly blaming shelter, I know they have a hard time and do what they can with the few means that they have but boy they sure want to adopt these dogs out and here at least the dogs get very nice write-ups even if there are known issues, or breed characteristics, and then unsuspecting, well-meaning people adopt them and it's just not working out for them. It breaks my heart to see dogs "rejected" over and over again. if you dont, then oviously you dont love GSPs as much as you claim. I guess not. And as for the lady who said she would cut off her head then give it to a shelter, get over yourself Why? It's the truth. For some of you to send your hate through your messages just kills me I don't see any hate in my post. I am very upset, but I don't hate you. I would have been less upset if Dan had presented the whole picture. how dare you make me feel like I am just one of those people who gets a dog and doesn't understand the breed. Maybe you should adopt him, since you have all the time in the world to be on this site I did not say that you did not understand the breed. And no, I can't take him (see above). In regards to having all the time in the world to be on this site, some of that time went into giving suggestions to solve YOUR problems, so please don't come here asking for advice from people you think have nothing better to do than be on this site. All of that said, I am hoping the dog can be saved and helped. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Dan_ploof
 JH Posts:28

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| 06/24/2009 7:23 AM |
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Thank you for the new posts. I want to address the issue of the leash. The humane society never told me that Max was a bolter, and to be quite honest, I don't know if I would have adopted him knowing this. I want my dogs to be able to run, to get out, so they are tired when I start to train them. I feel like every walk I gave Max, he could go forever. So when bringing him to the park, we kept the leash on him, looked at the fences and then debated whether or not to let him go. When a group of people left he gate open, I couldn't get there in time. Who leaves the gate open at a dog park? Of course Max bolted and never looked back. He always is found 4 hours later, whether by the police or a friendly neighbor, but I can deal with the fact that he could cause a major accident, or kill himself. It's too stressful for me. My mom and I tried the check cord in the backyard, but he doesn't budge. He won't listen to you or even look at you. I am 22 years old with a 15month old baby, a rescued black lab, 2 rescued cats, and a husband, while working at the hospital and enrolled in nursing school. I think this dog took the last bit of time and patience I had left. I just couldn't do that. I don't see it as giving up, but I can't save everyone. If anyone knows of someone who could help Max that would be great, or someone who could point me in the right direction. I have him on multiple sites as well as talked to therapy groups in Vermont and rescues in Albany. Any and all advice is appreciated and I thank you for the story of the bolter. That was funny and lifted my spirits, but how long will it take? One never knows. |
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Dan_ploof
 JH Posts:28

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| 06/24/2009 7:31 AM |
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as do I. I want nothing more than for this dog to have a home and be healthy. But it's the way you say things that make me upset. You are darn right, I asked for help and advice on this site because I knew you guys all cared about your dogs very much and were always so helpful to my mother with her abby and elle. I thought maybe you could be a little more understand. I admitted I bit off more than I could chew with max, but maybe that was my lesson to learn.. To kick me while I am down just hurts, that's all. I am doing everything I can to help the dog and I really do appreciate all the advice. Sometimes Dan doesn't know how to word himself and writes in anger, but we are both very upset. Max needs something we cannot give him. I thank you for your advice, minus the part of chopping your head off. A little too graphic for the baby.  |
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MOOSE1 Fruitport, MI
 MH Posts:1789


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| 06/24/2009 7:36 AM |
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Posted By Ellegirl on 06/23/2009 9:17 PM
I was the one that suggested that they join the shorthair forum for some advice on how to handle max. Last weekend My hubby and I went to visit them in NY. I was excited to meet Max and see if I could help in any way. I took him for a walk and tried to get his attention but to no avail until I took the special treats I brought from home He was highly food motivated so we worked on sits and downs.
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The reason I am quoting your mother is because she herself has given the answer to how to train this dog in this paragraph! I understand that you are busy people. I have 5 dogs a 2 year old little boy and 4 horses. Life can't get a whole lot bussier than that. But like TexasBelle said even 10 minutes a day of working with him will eventually make him a wonderful dog. I am sure you guys have a favorite TV show. Just commit to during a commercial break or two doing some work. Also there is no shame if he is hard to handle during the day in taking a crate and crating him while your wife is home alone.
I wish you both good luck and hope he finds that home that understands him and can commit to just 10 minutes a day of training.
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