|
| Author |
Messages |
|
karle13
Posts:3
 |
| 06/13/2009 7:11 PM |
|
Hi, i am new to this forum . I have an 11 and a half yr old GSP.He was just diagnosed with LP. I am beside myself. Our vet put him on Amiltriptyaline and we now need to keep him cool and calm. There is a surgery for this, but he does not advise it, its a hard operation and recovery.I do trust our vet, we have been using him for many years and is known to be the best in our area. This disease usually affects older, large dogs, like labs. Anyone else have this with their dog ?Thanks, any advise would be greatly appreciated! |
|
|
|
|
Marie
Wisconsin
MH
Posts:2721
|
| 06/13/2009 11:45 PM |
|
I have no experience with LP disease, but my prayers are with you as it is just devastating to learn from your Vet that your furkin has a terrible disease Do the best you can to keep your 11 yr old honey GSP comfortable. Keep us posted and Welcome to this forum!! |
|
Marie and Rocky, a tall, high energy GSP
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab18/Annette_Merryfield/100_0285.jpg?t=1287205231 |
|
|
Navilla
Lawrenceburg, IN
MH
Posts:980
|
| 06/14/2009 7:37 AM |
|
| Best wishes to you.... I don't have any advice either. We'll be thinking of you. |
|
Caryl, Dave, Baby Logan, and Osiris
Lawrenceburg, Indiana
    |
|
|
singltrak
Las Cruces, NM
MH
Posts:1149
|
| 06/14/2009 2:12 PM |
|
I'm confused about the Amitriptylene. Its used as an anti-depressant and for migraines. Is that supposed to keep him calm also ? I'd think you would also want to minimize pressure on the trachea or laryngeal area of the throat, be sure that the collar is always right behind his ears when you walk him rather than down in the middle of the throat area.
You might consult with a holistic vet for herbal preparations to benefit the management of this condition. Good luck! Poor baby, give him a big hug and keep him cool...(humidity and heat are two baddies here). |
|
Look to the Past, Breed for the Future |
|
|
karle13
Posts:3
|
| 06/14/2009 2:33 PM |
|
Hi, thanks everyone for your good wishes! We have already taken off his collar, luckily, we have a nice size gated yard, so we just make sure the gates are locked,and we let him out. The med that he is on is defin, to keep him calm, but also he said it would help his breathing by relaxing him. So far so good, his panting is much less, only now when he comes in from outside, and we are in MD. So it can be hot and humid, but we only take him out when he has to go, or early morning when its not to hot yet.Thank goodness hes still happy.I am so sad and wish there was more i could do for him. I may consult a homeopathic, i actually use one myself. |
|
|
|
|
Patti
Scituate RI
MH
Posts:78
|
| 06/14/2009 3:20 PM |
|
| I don't have any info of my own but I did forward your message to someone I know has a wealth of info on the subject. Good luck with your boy. |
|
|
|
|
karle13
Posts:3
|
| 06/14/2009 3:28 PM |
|
Thank you so much Patti, i will take any info that i can. Unfortunately, there is not alot of information on this disease. I have searched and can not really come up with much other than what i already know. I am looking for suggestions from others who are dealing with this. |
|
|
|
|
mdunson
CT
Posts:4
|
| 06/14/2009 9:32 PM |
|
Hi there, Patti let me know you had posted (I was on the gsp-l but had to re-register to get on the forum).
I am in CT. My older GSP developed this late last year, and like you I was beside myself with worry. I joined 2 discussion groups on Yahoo--there is the LP group and the LPalternatives group. Both have a lot of members with plenty of experience (and varied opinions). Here is what I ended up doing in a nutshell.
First I stopped using a collar immediately (not an issue as my dog was already used to a seat-belt harness). I got a diagnosis confirmed--this is done under light sedation (enough to put the dog under but not to stop the larynx from moving if it is normal; if the laryngeal folds just "hang" there, then the larynx is paralysed and that is the definitive diagnosis). Some dogs are paralysed only on one side. My dog had bilateral paralysis.
While doing research on the surgery, I contacted several vets, met one board-certified surgeon who had experience in the unilateral tie-back surgery ("UTB", this is the most commonly done "fix") so as to have a better idea of the pros/cons--at the time my dog's LP was mild and this surgeon did not recommend surgery at the time, unless the symptoms got worse quickly. I also consulted with Dr. Randy Caviness up in MA, he teaches small animal acupuncture at Tufts and had some experience with LP. Acupuncture can help in some cases, but he warned that it was not a "cure". This is a progressive disease and does not "get better", although the progress might be slow. He recommended adding a high potency Vitamin B supplement to my dog's daily routine. I already give a flax/borage/fish oil supplement to both my dogs, otherwise he would've recommended the omega-3 supplement as well.
I was worried about whether to opt for the surgery because of my dog's age--nearly 13 at the time. Also, the UTB is not a perfect approach...the risks were worrying. The UTB involves an incision on the side of the throat (about 4 inches for a GSP) and into the larynx, and suturing one side of the larynx permanently open. A good surgeon (and you want to go to a board-certified surgeon with plenty of experience in this technique) will open the larynx only enough to provide sufficient airway. But even a well done UTB increases the risk of aspiration pneumonia considerably, since food or water can easily go into the trachea and into the lungs. And the dog generally should not swim after surgery because of the risk of inhaling water.
My dog's LP was clearly progressing. He panted all the time and had a few episodes where he was wheezing for a few seconds. He never had a "crisis" where he couldn't breathe at all, but of course I didn't want this to progress where that happened.
THEN in February this year I learned from a member of the LP alternatives list that there is a surgeon in Pennsylvania who had developed an alternative technique to the UTB. His name is Dr. Ken Sadanaga, he is board-certified, and he works at the Veterinary Referral Center in Malvern, PA (www.vetreferral.com). This is a referral and emergency center, not for routine veterinary care. The other list member's Labrador had undergone the surgery, and she kept me (and the discussion group) up to date on her dog's progress. Everything I heard was positive so I contacted Dr. Sadanaga by phone, sent up my dog's records and radiographs, and after more phone consults decided to go for the surgery--we scheduled surgery in late March, right after my dog's 13th birthday.
Dr. Sadanaga used to do the UTB but was never happy with the results. So about 12 years ago he developed this technique (I am copying a post between the **** I made not too long ago to the LPalt list):
****
It is actually two procedures done together called "bilateral vocal cord excision" and "arytenoidpexy".
The first part is removal of the vocal cords--this is what gives room in the airway for the dog to breath more easily (as opposed to the more commonly used "unilateral tie-back" where one side of the larynx is permanently sutured open).
The second part is to fix (with several small sutures) the arytenoid cartilages on both sides of the larynx to the thyroid cartilages that are just behind them. As I understand it, that allows the larynx to regain some movement because the thyroid cartilages themselves are controlled by other muscles. This means that overall the larynx architecture and function is maintained, and when the dog swallows, food/water does not pass into the lungs.
The way Dr. Sadanaga explained his procedure to me, it restores about 85% of the airway, which is a little less than what you get with the tie-back. And the dog loses its voice. But the advantages are (1) no increased risk of aspiration pneumonia and (2) the dog can still swim after
surgery.
****
We drove from CT down to PA for the surgery (5.5 hours one way). The VRC facilities and staff are great. I was given an examination room to myself for all the time we were there. Dr. S and an surgical resident individually examined my dog. In an unforeseen complication, the pre-surgery bloodwork showed elevated calcium (not seen in a previous analysis a few months earlier), so the specter of cancer now added to my worries! Ultrasound showed nothing in the abdomen but a growth on the left parathyroid/thyroid. We decided to add removal of the parathyroid/thyroid to the surgery, but postponed everything to the next day as it was getting quite late.
The surgery went well the next day. The first thing Dr. S. will do is to start with a light sedation to absolutely verify the LP. Then he did the LP surgery as well as the thyroid removal. I visited with my dog post-surgery (he was just waking up). Post-surgical care was excellent and I felt things would be OK going back to the hotel that evening. You can call at any time to check on your dog. I called a couple of times and heard that he was doing well; he drank some water that night and the next morning ate some soft food. They released my dog that afternoon, we stayed overnight at the hotel as Dr. S. wanted one more blood test (because of the calcium issue) done before we drove home.
Healing was completely uncomplicated. LOTS of pills at first (painkiller, anti-inflammatory, antibiotics, calcium supplements as the remaining thyroid readjusted). Several small meals daily at first. Soft food only for 2 weeks. At 2 weeks post-surgery, we drove down to PA again for a follow up. Usually Dr. S. likes to see the LP patients once more at 6 weeks post-surgery, but we skipped that in my case as the drive is so long.
It's been about 2.5 months since the surgery, and I cannot recommend it and Dr. Sananaga highly enough. Healing was quick, you cannot even see where the incisions were. My dog had NO problems eating or drinking (apart from a sore throat for the first week or so...so small meals at first). No gagging/hacking/wheezing. He occasionally would clear his throat on getting up after having been asleep for a while...this is normal, just clearing mucous. His energy level is back up and he is once more going for off-lead runs and retrieving in my pond. (He has no signs of arthritis and was in otherwise excellent health prior to the LP.)
The growth turned out to be a thyroid carcinoma that was low grade and completely encapsulated--caught early by serendipity! We just did the follow up ultrasound last week and all looks good. I hope there will be no metastasis, but as it was caught early, prognosis was good.
Costs: for the LP surgery, low/high estimates were something like $2500/$3600, and you must put down half of the high estimate. (My costs were higher because of the thyroid complication.) There is financing ("care credit"?) available and they work with insurance companies if you have a policy (I did not, but I sure wish I had!).
Bottom line...I am glad I opted for the LP surgery without waiting very long, as the LP stresses the heart, and now with warmer weather on us, my dog is doing just fine. Yes, he will still pant when he gets hot after running around (of course), but he cools off fine and seems once more to really enjoy himself whereas before the surgery it was obvious that he was becoming more and more reluctant to exert himself. Now, he neither looks or acts like a 13-y-o especially as his fur is now mostly grown back!
OK...will end here as it is late. Please let me know if I can give you more information. Do join the Yahoo groups. If you are in MD, you are much closer to Malvern, PA, than I am...and to me it is a no-brainer to opt for this approach rather than the UTB. Remember that LP is NOT something like an incurable cancer, it is "fixable"!
Good luck!
Mia |
|
|
|
|
snips
n.ga.
MH
Posts:413
|
| 06/14/2009 9:47 PM |
|
| I would be concerned with scar tissue, as I have seen it in debarked dogs. I have seen LP in quite a few E Setters we get here for training. Does removing tonsils help this? I know 1 person that said it did. |
|
brenda |
|
|
mdunson
CT
Posts:4
|
| 06/14/2009 9:52 PM |
|
Dr. S. uses a laser scalpel (I think that is what it is called). Scarring is an issue with the old-fashioned debarking where the vocal cords are "pinched out". (Ick!)
Don't know about tonsils. |
|
|
|
|
mdunson
CT
Posts:4
|
| 06/14/2009 9:56 PM |
|
| I forgot to add that my dog no longer barks or whines normally. You can hear air moving, like a quiet, somewhat hoarse bark. But he doesn't seem to notice the difference...he is just as talkative as he always was!!! |
|
|
|
|
|
| You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
|
|
ActiveForums 3.7
|
You must be logged in to use this module.
|