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Cornbread
 SH Posts:50

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| 05/11/2009 8:46 PM |
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have a 10 week old. have a blast with him including:
pretty well crate trained, house trained, started on sit and come, give, leave it, off. we are praising him a lot especially when he corrected and he responds well he then gets positive affection.
HOWEVER, (and I know he's just a puppy) during the past 4 or 5 days he's mouthing has gotten marked more intense. he's not broken skin, but it is happening during almost each interaction / play session. I work from home so he's with me lots. he has no less than 5 toys.
when it happens I have tried the following:
calm tone: no bite
an agressive growl "no bite"
sort of a yelp like over reacting as if he had bitten.
a growl like I suppose mother would have offered in disapproval
a growl and little scruff grab
No bite with a tug of the drag line
other stuff that's prompts a question and my be related from a personality perspetive. he jumps up and tries to mouth at the same time...seems fairly agressive. and then in the past few days HE is growling as he comes up / at me. the best way to stop is to pick him up and let him wiggle it out. once calm I praise him physically and verbally and then calmly put him down. I will also take him straight to the crate if he mouthing a lot...not as punishment but for a time out.
what do I need to do??? several times he's racked out right after the little episode...could he just be getting tired and cranky?
Please critize and comment and advise!! |
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7843


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| 05/11/2009 9:12 PM |
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First, with the mouthing try grabbing your pups lower jaw with your hand and press down on his tongue with your thumb. That stopped the mouthing when my boy was doing that at about the same age. You need to be consistent and I think you will find that the mouthing stops pretty fast. As for the rest, I suspect you are right on being tired. Halo used to do the samething. I always called it the crazy Halos. When ever she got wild like that she always was tired and needed to go to bed. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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MegC Ellensburg, WA
 MH Posts:989


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| 05/11/2009 9:39 PM |
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I think your strategy of grabbing pupalupagus until he voluntarily calms down is a good one. You're not letting him get away with biting, you're letting him know that you're in charge, and you're reinforcing some self control. I've seen adult dogs pin down pups when they get out of hand so you're going with a dog's natural methodology to establishing social orders and manners. I started on long downs when my pups were very tiny. I would coax them into a down position with food, then I'd put a hand over their back and hold them down through one 'spin cycle' if you know what I mean. NO LETTING GO until they quit struggling.... THEN they got the treat and much praise. They caught on pretty quickly that settling down and paying attention earned them the treat and the freedom they wanted. All 3 of my dogs were such independent, headstrong little rascals that I felt it was an important lesson to lay in as early as possible. |
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Megan + Dulcie (Lehmschlog's The Right Spot) + Rogan (Lehmschlog's BR Rogan) + Anya (Lehmschlog's Anya O Conchobar) Intro to harness sport/mushing- start here! |
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WildRose Seymour Texas
 MH Posts:471


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| 05/11/2009 10:19 PM |
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Posted By Cornbread on 05/11/2009 8:46 PM
have a 10 week old. have a blast with him including:
pretty well crate trained, house trained, started on sit and come, give, leave it, off. we are praising him a lot especially when he corrected and he responds well he then gets positive affection.
HOWEVER, (and I know he's just a puppy) during the past 4 or 5 days he's mouthing has gotten marked more intense. he's not broken skin, but it is happening during almost each interaction / play session. I work from home so he's with me lots. he has no less than 5 toys.
when it happens I have tried the following:
calm tone: no bite
an agressive growl "no bite"
sort of a yelp like over reacting as if he had bitten.
a growl like I suppose mother would have offered in disapproval
a growl and little scruff grab
No bite with a tug of the drag line
other stuff that's prompts a question and my be related from a personality perspetive. he jumps up and tries to mouth at the same time...seems fairly agressive. and then in the past few days HE is growling as he comes up / at me. the best way to stop is to pick him up and let him wiggle it out. once calm I praise him physically and verbally and then calmly put him down. I will also take him straight to the crate if he mouthing a lot...not as punishment but for a time out.
what do I need to do??? several times he's racked out right after the little episode...could he just be getting tired and cranky?
Please critize and comment and advise!!
Patience and persistance. He IS a puppy and he's just acting like a normal puppy. You don't expect your children to understand foreign concepts in two weeks, or to behave perfectly either do you?
No he's not being aggressive, he's being a playful puppy. Have you ever watched puppies play with each other?
Just keep doing what you are doing. I would suggest "NO" rather than "No bite" or no anythign else. No means no, which mens stop whatever you are doing. Keep it simple. |
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There's a reason I like dogs better'n people... . |
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auwallace Mobile, AL
 MH Posts:235


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| 05/12/2009 4:48 AM |
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| i second the pressure on the tongue method. it worked on both of mine. just be patient, it may seem like they aren't learning their lesson but i promise they are. one day you'll realize,"hey my pup hasn't mouthed me in a while". |
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everbell Kanata, ON
 MH Posts:3166


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| 05/12/2009 5:16 AM |
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This sounds like pretty normal behviour based on what we went through with Bo. Any time I sat down on his level, he took it as an invitation to bite my ponytail, my hand, my knee, etc. All the other advice is given is great. I fully support the time-outs ... Bo was not a puppy who would calm down quietly on his own. We would put him in his crate when he was getting strung out and he would immediately fall asleep for an hour. He was much more responsive once he'd had a nap. Also, you may want to introduce some supervised chewing toys ... bull pizzles and bones got us through year 1. |
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Joce and Rich Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs) Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats) The Everbell Adventures |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4450


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| 05/12/2009 7:01 AM |
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I would give a good,swift smack across the muzzle and a good,hard push when he went to jump up. Anytime a puppy/dog approaches with teeth/open mouth it is for one reason, to dominate. You are touching him back which lets him know you are not accepting this behavior but he really doesn't take you seriously. You are learning respect for him,by being watchful of his jumps and teeth, but he is not learning to be respectful to you. Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 05/12/2009 7:28 AM |
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I think you have a pretty good approach, and I would also try what Texas Belle suggested. Puppies are a ton of work, and it doesn't stop at three months; I'd say, for you, it has only just begun, and to be honest, I am glad we are at the 10-months mark (although we still have a year or more of adolescence ahead). Thinking back those first few months were a lot of fun and a lot of "argh! enough already!". |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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jjhambel
Posts:9

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| 05/12/2009 10:16 AM |
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When Marley was a puppy we had the same problem. First we tried the time outs in a bathroom. Lights off, no toys, no interaction with us. We’d keep her there for about one minute then let her out. Sometimes she’d come out and behave and stopped biting us…others times she’d pick up where she left off and we’d repeat the cycle. Our vet suggested bitter apple and that seemed to work the best. When she’d start nipping at us, we’d spray our hand, shoe, or whatever she was biting with bitter apple and put it in her mouth and say ‘No.” Then we’d make the switch to one of her toys and praised her for chewing her toy and not us. She picked up the concept very quickly and eventually, when she started nipping and we’d bring out the bottle, she’d stop without us ever using it.
The good news is the phase doesn’t last very long. By nine months I noticed a huge difference in behavior. After they are a year it starts getting very easy. Marley is two now and the only issue I am having a hard time breaking her of is jumping on guest when they come to the door. She is better than she was a year ago, but it is a work in progress. |
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WildRose Seymour Texas
 MH Posts:471


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| 05/12/2009 1:07 PM |
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Anytime a puppy/dog approaches with teeth/open mouth it is for one reason, to dominate.
Horse hockey. Puppies run around with their mouth open all the time in order to breathe.
Smacking your puppy is a great way to ensure your puppy will be fearful of your hand and nothing else; and certainly leads to problems with "here" later.
There are far, far better ways to approach this as are detailed above.
All that needs to be done is to establish what level of this type of play is acceptable and you don't have to hit dogs to do so.
Fear is not respect and you need not instill fear in order to achieve respect. |
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There's a reason I like dogs better'n people... . |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4450


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| 05/12/2009 1:24 PM |
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I am not talking about puppies running around with their mouths open.
I am talking about what the poster posted.
quote:
'during the past 4 or 5 days he's mouthing has gotten marked more intense. he's not broken skin, but it is happening during almost each interaction / play session....'
'other stuff that's prompts a question and my be related from a personality perspetive. he jumps up and tries to mouth at the same time...seems fairly agressive. and then in the past few days HE is growling as he comes up / at me. '
Did you read what I wrote?
It is not enjoyable to have a dog mouth and bite and jump. the poster has mentioned several methods they have tried and ALL have failed so far.
I did not suggest to hurt the dog. Surely, if the dog is willing and capable of hurting her she should be willing to give him a dose of his own medicine.
If a dog becomes hand shy or there are issues with the come command because you hit your dog then that dog is of poor temperment. Again, I am not suggesting beating, a swift smack is all that is needed.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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matt4126 powhatan va
 MH Posts:69


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| 05/12/2009 1:28 PM |
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| swift smack? 10 wk old puppy? I'm no dog trainer, but can think of something better than that. |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4450


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| 05/12/2009 1:55 PM |
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I hear ya.
But, it seems everything else has already been tried. the puppy appears to be becoming more aggressive in his attempts, noted by the :'other stuff that's prompts a question and my be related from a personality perspetive. he jumps up and tries to mouth at the same time...seems fairly agressive. and then in the past few days HE is growling as he comes up / at me. '
What I suggested was to be applied age appropriate and size appropriate.
A swift smack does not imply amount of pressure,force or touch. I leave that up to the person.
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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DesertRoseKennel
 MH Posts:1033

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| 05/12/2009 1:58 PM |
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I agree that a smack is not how I'd choose to handle this. And I have dogs that are tough in terms of not taking things personally. They believe everyone loves them at all times even when they are acting like wild animals. I could whack them with a 2X4 and they would come right back, tail wagging. Even so, hitting is not my desired response. The tongue "pinch" as described above as worked well for me. I also have used successfully a grab around the muzzle and staring the pup down until they avert their eyes and acknowledge me as the pack leader. With a particular tenacious vampire, I will grab the scruff and haul them up so at least their front feet are off the ground. This is good because it simulates what their mother would do and as the original poster described, I let them twist and work out that they just aren't in charge of this situation. If that doesn't work, I've pinned an unruly teenager to the ground or in my lap and bear hugged until they quit struggling and submit to me, then they are allowed to get up when they have calmed themselves down.
To the original poster, you are basically on the right track, it's just repetition OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER. Just when you are sure this dog you have is retarded, it will one day click and he'll be bearable.
Jean |
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"Our dogs are bred to be champion hunters who sleep on the bed" www.desertrosekennel.com |
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Cornbread
 SH Posts:50

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| 05/12/2009 1:59 PM |
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Hey, Poster here. good feedback. pushing on the tongue in the past 12 hrs seems to have had a good effect...though between letting loose of the pressure and my hand clearing his teeth he can and does still get me. ...I guess nothing's perfect. he's young and showing signs of shyness. I'm hoping its that he's young and he's hearing things new. 1st 8 weeks = country. we are a mile from down town. I take all comments with a grain of salt and try to see what works best. I took the smack him comment not as a beat down, but a negative stimulus. I'm going to hold off on that one regardless. I think making him kennel up and nap is more important that I thought originally. good to hear it will take a year...no instant gratification expected...good reminder. sit and come are progress and it seems mouthing should to, but I've got to forget a timeframe and be consistently headed in the right direction....keep the thoughts coming. it's helpful!! |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4450


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| 05/12/2009 2:04 PM |
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What I suggested is quick,painless and leave an impression on the puppy. An impression that he can not come along and do as he pleases with his mouth and body. I do feel that some of the suggestions in the last post are not that much different then what I suggested. Staring a puppy down can cause issues, especially if thepuppy is very dominant, by nature.Some of the other suggestions in the above post would strike more fear in the dog then i would be willing to risk. Jean, your suggestions are just about always on the ball, but I do not agree with much of your last post. Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4450


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| 05/12/2009 2:10 PM |
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Did someone say it would take a year to stop the mouthing? Oh my. That can't be correct.
If he is showing signs of shyness, I would think that you are dealing with an insecure puppy rather then a dominat puppy. this needs to be looked after carefully, because an insecure puppy can turn into a fear biter. not that that's what will happen to your puppy, but it does happen.
Socialize as much as you can with kids,adults and other dogs.
Is there a picture posted of this little monster?
Most puppies ,of all breeds,are this way at this age.
part of the fun of owning a dog.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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DesertRoseKennel
 MH Posts:1033

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| 05/12/2009 2:12 PM |
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As always, I'm telling you what's worked for me. If I had a pup that were too dominant for me to stare down, I would look hard at my breeding program. I will NOT tolerate human sharpness in dogs. Similarly, if staring a puppy down or bear hugging them when they are acting like wild animals made them afraid, I would again look at my breeding program. I expect my dogs to be a lot more confident, tougher and unafraid than that. I would much rather use my methods than hitting, but to each his own. |
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"Our dogs are bred to be champion hunters who sleep on the bed" www.desertrosekennel.com |
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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 05/12/2009 2:27 PM |
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Did someone say it would take a year to stop the mouthing? Oh my. That can't be correct. Myself and someone else implied a time frame of sorts...I for my part was not referring to a year of biting and snapping and chewing up things but rather two years of issues of the various kinds. Meaning, it's a long process in general. The pup is 10 weeks old. The OP has been working with it for two weeks now. I have yet to see a pup that age that learns how to behave in two weeks. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4450


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| 05/12/2009 2:41 PM |
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Okay, I agree with your breeding program philosophy. This puppy is not one of your dogs tho. I feel the same way you do about my dogs. If there is one that does not fit the program,thankfully this has not happened yet, then that dog's breeding would need to be looked at more closly. In my home we expect a puppy to stop mouthing around 4 months old. But, it is also the degree of mouthing that needs to be looked at. We expect total house broken by nine months and to be capable of being left alone, for an hour or two,loose in the home, by 1 1/2 years old. We expect that 2 years old the dog will be a pretty good companion, in and out of the home. Hang in there, the light at the end of the tunnel is shinning bright. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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