rdebault
Colleyville, TX (DFW) area
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| 02/24/2009 1:28 PM |
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| JCK I don't think anyone has accused anyone of being a bad person here. I think the point is that people need to really get to know a breed of dog before purchasing said dog. For instance in this thread the first post was relating to a mother wanting to by her son (1 1/2 year old son) a GSP. Now that statement in itself, to me, is a red flag. Of course I am a new GSP owner I know, as a rule, that big dogs and little kids do not go well together. Now if she would have said she would like a dog for herself or husband and child things might have been different. I know to many parents that have bought "Pets" for their kids only to give them up months later when the kids do not take care of them. Or the parents do not have enough time to take care of them. There are always exceptions to every rule though and sometimes we as humans make bad calls. We can only hope that we are doing the right thing when it comes to those that are counting on us. This of course will make some people upset and others happy but in the end one truth will remain. "We can never make everyone happy" |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
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Posts:7863
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MegC
Ellensburg, WA
MH
Posts:989
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| 02/24/2009 1:38 PM |
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I can totally understand the frustration FWIW. There are people out there that approach choosing a dog with less foresight than selecting X colored IKEA furniture from a catalog. GSPs are wonderful dogs, but they're major trouble for the unprepared owner... the kind of trouble that can get a dog hurt or homeless (not to mention what happened to the furniture or the cat).
Jessica lives about 10 miles from me, and I can tell you this community in general isn't terribly progressive when it comes to dealing with dogs. While it's better than it used to be, in the northern section of the county there are still a lot of dogs that 'run free in the country' and are packing buckshot as a result- with or without their owners realizing it. Parvo has been a major puppy-killer since loose dogs have spread it far and wide into the soil. And I still hear people say their dog was 'stupid' and 'didn't listen' when they get hit by a car- as in "we told him to stay out of the street but he was stupid and didn't listen".
She's wise to be wary. And now you know part of the reason I chickened out on breeding... I'd be loosing my mind with worry about my babies getting calls like that!!! |
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Megan
+ Dulcie (Lehmschlog's The Right Spot) + Rogan (Lehmschlog's BR Rogan) + Anya (Lehmschlog's Anya O Conchobar)
Intro to harness sport/mushing- start here! |
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pixie bee
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Posts:4452
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| 02/24/2009 2:25 PM |
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You actually have in your contract that people must exercise a dog they get from you for 4 hours a day?
Well, you certainly would not have sold me a dog!
Very unreasonable.
We also do not have a yard,we live in the city, we have children and my dogs lay around the house A LOT.
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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JCK
SH
Posts:44
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| 02/24/2009 2:53 PM |
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No, I appreciate the concern, and am happy to hear about breeders that won't sell their dogs to just anyone.
But I also hear from the other side: people who are frustrated by the breeder's unwillingness to sell them a dog. My experience with these folks is that the communication from the breeder often fails to educate them about the reasons behind the denied sale.
So these people are at risk for finding a careless breeder, rather than understanding a GSP is the wrong dog.
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TessaGA
Georgia
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Posts:2387
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| 02/24/2009 3:10 PM |
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| 4 hours is a lot of exercise for every day. Mine only gets 2-3. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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lauralee
Plainfield, CT.
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Posts:449
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| 02/24/2009 6:11 PM |
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I think that every puppy buyer has to be individually screened, Because, Tessa & Pixie Bee are not the norm. Most breeders would refuse to sell them a puppy based on their living arrangements, but they have done an awesome job taking care of their GSP's needs. Even without the yards,fence,etc.
Breeders are in a awkward position deciding hows right for their puppies. The breeders I know take it very personal if they make the wrong decision, and place a puppy in an inproper home. Just imagine if they threw caution to the wind, and sold to anyone that walked through their doors. There would be a lot more GSP's in the rescues & pounds.
With that being said, I do think there has to be a little more variability in the screening process so good owner prospects like, Tessa, & Pixie bee can be deemed as great GSP buyers |
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Central.Wa.GSPs
MH
Posts:314
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| 02/24/2009 10:31 PM |
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Posted By Central.Wa.GSPs on 02/24/2009 12:19 PM
I don't have a problem with buyers who don't have a fenced yard. In my puppy buying contract it actually covers that saying: "They Buyer shall provide the dog with a fully fenced yard or other humane means of exercise." One of my first questions I always ask someone is do you have a fenced yard and are you willing to spend four hours a day exercising your dog (especially if you live in an apartment).
Please re-read what is in "quotes" and what is not. If someone is living in an apartment and wants to buy them I ask them are you willing to spend 4 hours a day exercising them. It doesn't say you have to but if someone says oh no I only plan to twice a week (which has happened) then I know that they are not someone who is ready to put the time and love into a GSP.
Megan and I do live literally 10 miles from eachother and I will second what she said about people shooting animals all the time here. And this last summer I hit a dog driving in the farm country here cause EVERYONE lets their dogs wonder here because we live in the country. Not only that but I rescued Maggie (RIP) who was 15 lbs under weight, who had been hit in the head and had a crack in her skull. I fought so hard to try and save her but after the atacks and the heart ache I had to put her down.
Some might say im crazy because I am so "tough" on placing my dogs and I have a three page contract. I call it being thorough. Because I don't want any of my puppies ending up with Maggies fate. I think everyone should have a chance to own a dog in their life time but I also think that they need the right type of dog to fit them. I hope that makes a little more sense. No one is a bad person and no one does not deserve to experience these dogs. But our dogs do deserve the best that they can get and I will do everything in my power to make sure my litter goes to the best homes out there. 
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-Jessica-
*Bailey* GSP
*Lily* GSP
* RIP: Maggie Mae* GSP
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 02/25/2009 5:06 AM |
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A contract is not enforceable. You wouldn't be able to win in a court of law.
Especially if it is out of state. You would have to prove serious abuse if you wanted to get the dog back.
FWIW, the dogs don't need that much exercies or attention. If a dog needs that much daily exercise then they are hyper and should not be bred. It's nice to give that much exercise but it shouldn't be necessary for a happy, healthy,well adjusted dog.
I can't imagine what I would put in a 3 page contract. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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unowhoandwhy
Middleofnowhere, NH
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Posts:1805
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| 02/25/2009 6:21 AM |
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| The contract may not be completely enforceable, but I bet it screens out a heck of a lot of people that would not be a good fit for the life she wants her pups to have. I think it's commendable that she is taking the extra care to make sure the pups go to the best possible homes. Most people wouldn't realize that it would difficult to impossible to enforce all the clauses in a contract like that, which I bet (or at least I assume) is the purpose of ity anyway. |
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Daniel Yankee Flyer - 8/2002
Lady Layla - 1/2006 |
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TessaGA
Georgia
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Posts:2387
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| 02/25/2009 8:02 AM |
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they have done an awesome job taking care of their GSP's needs. Even without the yards,fence,etc.
I admit that it does take a certain amount of commitment - daily. As Tessa is maturing I realize that you really don't get away with slacking off as you would with most of the other breeds. Not a problem for me but I totally see where it can be a problem for some.
I signed a one-page contract that covers all the basics. I do like the "right of first refusal" clause.
Even though it may be impossible or difficult to enforce, I take the contract seriously.
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
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Posts:7863
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lauralee
Plainfield, CT.
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Posts:449
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| 02/25/2009 10:02 AM |
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| Bottom line here is, people & dogs can't always be catorgerized within the same contracts, there has to be some flexibility. |
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Ace1cappuccino
Carp Lake, Michigan
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Posts:1618
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| 02/25/2009 1:49 PM |
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| Isn't it horrible how many ppl get them for their looks and then can't handle the energy? Good for you not selling to them! |
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Cornell's GSP'S- Mocha cappuccino, Lili Belle Lotte, Sir Leopold Vom Hunter 1, Lil Miss Lotte Doddi, Ace Hunter Twisted Mister(GSP'S)  
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 02/25/2009 1:58 PM |
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| When we had 2 litters,way back when, the best calls were from people wanting to know if they should get a lab or a GSP. I would tell them to call me back when they decided. I made sure I took down their info so I knew when they called back. No one did. Guess they didn't like my tone. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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MegC
Ellensburg, WA
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Posts:989
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| 02/25/2009 3:30 PM |
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Posted By pixie bee on 02/25/2009 1:58 PM
When we had 2 litters,way back when, the best calls were from people wanting to know if they should get a lab or a GSP. I would tell them to call me back when they decided. I made sure I took down their info so I knew when they called back. No one did. Guess they didn't like my tone.
LOL- Apparently you had the right response! |
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Megan
+ Dulcie (Lehmschlog's The Right Spot) + Rogan (Lehmschlog's BR Rogan) + Anya (Lehmschlog's Anya O Conchobar)
Intro to harness sport/mushing- start here! |
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lauralee
Plainfield, CT.
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Posts:449
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| 02/25/2009 4:59 PM |
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Recently, I was talking with one of my breeder friends. She said a lot of peoples 1st question when calling in regard of the sale of her pups was, " How much are they?" She replies, "How much ya got?"
That should not be the first question asked when calling about a puppy !!! With that being your first question, I think all your looking for is a deal !!!
I expect this question to be asked, but I want you as the buyer to be more concerned with the health, clearances,pedigrees, of the puppies. This shows me that your first concern is getting a responsibly bred dog, not how much he is going to cost you.
It's funny that not to many people ask themselves, "How much is this baby going to cost me?" before the get pregnant !!! |
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Bxr-Linda
Oregon
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Posts:171
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| 02/25/2009 6:05 PM |
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Posted By lauralee on 02/25/2009 4:59 PM
Recently, I was talking with one of my breeder friends. She said a lot of peoples 1st question when calling in regard of the sale of her pups was, " How much are they?" She replies, "How much ya got?"
That should not be the first question asked when calling about a puppy !!! With that being your first question, I think all your looking for is a deal !!!
I expect this question to be asked, but I want you as the buyer to be more concerned with the health, clearances,pedigrees, of the puppies. This shows me that your first concern is getting a responsibly bred dog, not how much he is going to cost you.
It's funny that not to many people ask themselves, "How much is this baby going to cost me?" before the get pregnant !!!
I have to respectfully disagree.
I've heard a lot of people say they can't afford to have a baby.
I also don't think asking the price first is necessarily wrong. For example, if the pup is $1,000, and that is way out your range, why waste the breeder's time? In that case, perhaps rescue or a shelter is a better option.
I do agree that responsible breeders should ask a lot of questions of potential puppy buyers and place the puppies in the best-suited homes. |
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lauralee
Plainfield, CT.
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Posts:449
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| 02/25/2009 6:38 PM |
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| I respectively agree, that we can disagree. That's what's so great about this forum !!!!! |
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TessaGA
Georgia
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Posts:2387
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| 02/25/2009 6:49 PM |
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Price for me was an important issue. I wasn't looking for a deal, it was just a personal limit as to what I thought I could afford as far as purchase price goes (mainly because I know the expense that is gonna hit once the pup comes home). Tessa's price was very fair but still out of my range and I did know of a few breeders that were more affordable BUT...I liked Jubilee the best and once I saw the dogs and the set-up and met Tessa it was just a matter of writing that check.
That said, it wouldn't be my first question.
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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