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Aya814User is Offline


Posts:9


12/03/2008 12:18 PM  

So for those that also saw my last post, I'm trying to decide on a litter of puppies. Here are the two pedigrees I've got:

#1:

Puppies #1 Name-Unknown Stud Dog Int'l CH. No-Mars Hauss vom Enzo NAVHDA Utility (Field Test) Prize 1 Perfect score INT. CH Enzo Vom Ludwigstein MH, NAVHDA UT, PZ 1 KS Terz Engholm D1 S1 STR VBR HDO V MS
Aline Von Der Wacht Im Walde D1 BTR AZP1 HDO V
CH No-mars Wind Runner NAVHDA N/A, PZ 1 INT. CH/CH No-mars Komet V Biberbach NAHVDA UT 111
Hussa Vom Osterberg NAVHDA N/A, PZ 1, UT, PZ 111
No-Mars Victory Vom Hauss  Unknown
Unknown
Name-Unknown Bitch from Lucky Lady Kennels: http://luckyladykennel.com/ Unknown
Unknown

 

#2:

Puppies #2 Amazing Grace Chase NFC FC AFC Dunfurs Where You Ben FC (USA) Burr Oaks Hoosier Buddy (All-Age Pheasant Champion) FC/AFC (USA) Burr Oaks Big Jake
Willoway's Whistling Dixie
NAFC/FC/AFC (USA) PFK Dunfur's Morticia HOF FC (USA) Chukar Mountin' Mort
Ramblin Witch Hazel
Morsgaards Radbach Maggie Boultons Radbach Moose Unknown
Unknown
Lady Katherine of Birchwood Unknown
Unknown
Mapleacres Holly CH Mapleacres Rush DC AFC Trekker V Grunbaum UDX TDX MH MX AXJ DC Hillhaven's Hustler
Freigeist Bekannte V Laden CD JH
Ch Coveybuster's Tapestry Weave CD Ch Stradivarius V Holzstrom CD SH
Ch. Tapestry's TNT
No-Mars Cynder vom Tyson No-Mars Cowboys Mandrell Unknown
Unknown
No-Mars Tyson Vom Dyna No-mars WDF Charles 
No-Mars Selena

 

Anything anybody knows about these is great (I know #1 is rather incomplete). Thanks again for your help!

MOOSE1User is Offline
Fruitport, MI
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Posts:1789


12/03/2008 12:50 PM  
I guess I don't understand how you know some of the dogs but not others??? Where did you gather the information from?

Rajah-APBT- USUV UMJCH Flying High Rajah-TDI Certified
Phoenix-GSP- USJCH UWP GRCH BNJ Shooters Rising Phoenix-CGC Tested
Cody- GSP- AKC/CKC CH UKC UWP GRCH Legacyk n Estate Sunray Minor FDJ CGC Tested
Tucson-UJJ CH Legacyk FlwrCrk The Old Peublo
Rumor-UMJ URO1 GRCH BNJ Rumor Has It-RN RD CGC NA II


www.ezydog.com
Aya814User is Offline


Posts:9


12/03/2008 1:12 PM  

#2 is the pedigree the breeder of the pups provided. #1 is a combination of what I was told and what I researched.

pixie beeUser is Offline

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Posts:4452


12/03/2008 1:30 PM  
The 2 litters will produce different types of puppies. What are you looking for in a puppy?


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
TessaGAUser is Offline
Georgia
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Posts:2387


12/03/2008 3:09 PM  
Puppy one has quite a few unknowns close in. My next step would be to fill in those blanks and find out more about those dogs. I personally like to see some health clearances, for what it's worth.

To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
My creation
MOOSE1User is Offline
Fruitport, MI
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Posts:1789


12/03/2008 3:14 PM  
Gotcha. Both have nice bloodlines. But from what I recognize they are very much different in type. Both probably would be good hunting dogs.

Rajah-APBT- USUV UMJCH Flying High Rajah-TDI Certified
Phoenix-GSP- USJCH UWP GRCH BNJ Shooters Rising Phoenix-CGC Tested
Cody- GSP- AKC/CKC CH UKC UWP GRCH Legacyk n Estate Sunray Minor FDJ CGC Tested
Tucson-UJJ CH Legacyk FlwrCrk The Old Peublo
Rumor-UMJ URO1 GRCH BNJ Rumor Has It-RN RD CGC NA II


www.ezydog.com
Aya814User is Offline


Posts:9


12/03/2008 3:20 PM  
I'm looking for a real strong dog, not the slimmer-showier ones. Want one that hunts close in preferably. Is a good "pet." I would also like one that I can play with in agility, maybe some field trails, etc. (aka, a smart, athletic dog). All of the ancestors have good health clearances, I didn't include them because I didn't want to take up a tone of space. I'm trying to get #1 filled in. It's going to require me going to see the dogs (which I'm doing on Saturday). Anyway, how about the breeders... What do people know about No-Mars, Lucky Lady Kennels, and Mapleacres?
caroline_maeUser is Offline
Clemson, SC
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Posts:102


12/03/2008 3:48 PM  
Aya814 I have to say that I have a 6 month old show dog and he is far from a slim however still super showey. But he is also going to make a great field trial dog as well as the wonderful casual weekend hunt dog. Just letting you know you can have it all!
Can't help you with those kennels though sorry...
Have you visited the pups yet or the parents?
TessaGAUser is Offline
Georgia
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Posts:2387


12/03/2008 8:17 PM  
One thing you might want to keep in mind is if you get a pup from strictly hunting lines ... I have heard that those dogs don't necessarily make the best of "pets". NOT saying they don't make good companions or pets, but they may be very drivey and too high-strung if not hunted. I visited two breeders, both hunters, that had several very fine adults, but they were kenneled outside and did not live with them like a house pet would; they were trained and went hunting. They were VERY active. My pup is from primarily show lines. When I looked at those dogs, the adults were also excited, but mellowed out pretty quickly which surprised me, I didn't expect to see them "chillin" after what I had seen at the hunting kennels.

Nothing scientific, just my observations when I was looking and researching. I guess the best bet is to get a dog from a breeder that shows AND hunts.

I am not sure if show dogs are necessarily slimmer...are they? I thought that show dogs need to be as close to the GSP "blue print" standard as possible - breeders strive towards the perfect dog. It's not just about coat color and markings and flashiness. It's just as much about conformation, proportions, angulation etc., it all needs to check out. And good, true to breed standard conformation in turn is needed for the dog to be efficient at work. I can't imagine there is a huge difference in the performance of "real strong" GSPs vs. slimmer ones - actually, for agility, flyball etc, the slimmer and lighter the better (that's why the Border Collies excel at these sports). But, provided that the stronger ones as well as the slimmer ones are within the standard, I guess it's just a matter of preference of looks and that's fine, of course.

Sorry, can't help with those kennel names either.

To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
My creation
Almost Heaven GSPUser is Offline
Springfield, WV
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Posts:731


12/03/2008 9:26 PM  
At a glance, I'd go with #2, but sure would like to see the Peds filled in.
The topside on #1 should be relatively "handy" dogs that are going to work closer, but without seeing the entire Ped, it's just a guess at best what the #1 pups may be like.
#2 looks to be a very well balanced breeding of Trial, Show and Dual backgrounds. You've got some excellent Trial stock on top and I'm sure that if you were to email Dan Hoke(Dunfur Kennels), he'd be happy to answer any questions you might have about Ben and could also share a great deal more info on Buddy and Morticia. The Hustler stuff on the top/bottom side is some of the best Dual Quality breeding out there in my opinion and I would venture a guess, that if you contact Leslie Ruddock at Hoztrom GSP's, you could find out what is behind the Ch Stradivarius V Holzstrom CD SH dog and would almost certainly find more Hustler there as well. I have no personal knowledge or experience with the No-Mars Kennels dogs, but have heard good things from people whose opinions I respect.

Take it for what it's worth.

Money will buy a fine dog, but only kindness will make him wag his tail.

Bruce Shaffer
Almost Heaven GSP's
Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
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Posts:7856


12/03/2008 10:12 PM  

Tessa there is a good discussion going on in the GSP Anatomy thread that addresses some of the things in your post.  You might want to check it out as the discussion is very interesting show vs hunting.  I personally think a breeder that breeds for hunting, but also shows tends to have nice versatile dogs. Most of the good breeders I know will tell you their dogs are pets first and live in the house. GSPs make very good agility dogs and are very fast and strong.  There is allot of room in the GSP standard for interpretation which is evidenced by the dogs that win in the conformation ring.  For instance, some judges like smaller bitches and some like the larger bitches. Both are within the standard as written, but it is a preference.  Samething with the heads.  There are some judges that like to be able to tell the sex of the dog by just looking at the face/head.  They want to see feminine or masculine features.  So, I think because of the wiggle room in the standard and the various preferences of the breeders you get an interesting variety of looks within GSPs that are all acceptable. 


Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
caroline_maeUser is Offline
Clemson, SC
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Posts:102


12/04/2008 3:28 AM  
You can't always trust breeders who do field and conformation though I was recently at a show where a breeder who mainly showed in the field and occaisionally showed conformation had a bitch in the show who was far from breed standard and had an awful hackney gait and yet she still won best of winners against dogs she shouldn't have. Can't always trust the politics of conformation Aya you should really familiarize yourself with the breed standard and then from there make a decision about what you want and trust your instinct on what you like. Also don't look at just what the parents have achieved. Make sure you research what offspring of the parents have done as far as achievements.
pixie beeUser is Offline

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Posts:4452


12/04/2008 5:26 AM  
Before I consider a litter I look at the parents and grandparents. If they look (in appearence)the way I like I then look at their achievments and if the breeder does with their dogs what I like to do with mine. If I had to choose with the info given I would choose litter #1 b/c I like the NAVHDA stuff and I like the German side. The bottom litter is more of a field trial litter and I don't field trial and I don't know what the energy level of the dogs in that pedigree would be more than I was looking for or if the "type" I was looking for would be there.
Go with the breeder you feel most comfortable with and the puppy you are attracked to. Altho, are these the only 2 litters to choose from? I know when I look at litters I have a list and narrow it down.


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
TreyUser is Offline
SW Iowa
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Posts:516


12/04/2008 5:55 AM  
If you go to the navhda webpage (navhda.org) click on test results from last year 07, and go to gs, scroll to no mars, you should find lots of there dogs in the test results (don't know haven't looked them up) he is based in OR, I think, at least that is where I see most of the dogs from the kennel. Enzo is in CO, google indian brook kennel, you should find him there.
As far as the statement of hunting dogs being more active then show dogs, nothing could be further from the truth. Well bred hunting dogs know when to turn it on and when to save it. They aren't bred to look exciting at the end of a leash trotting around a ring (dont' jump me too bad, I do both). JMO.
bruns333User is Offline
Central Ohio
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Posts:383


12/04/2008 6:05 AM  
I agree with Trey about the hunting dogs in the house thing. My more show bred older female(5) is great in the house, but at 7 months old the pup is way ahead of her mom as far as house manners. The pup is more hunt bred, but IMHO learns faster and that makes her tolerable in the house at this age. We have two young girls and the dogs must be under control in the house at all times, no playing, running, and other favorite gsp behaivors.

Where temperament means performance
http://silverbulletshorthairs.com/
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=721 R.I.P Trego 6-1-03 to 10-13-10
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=941
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=3626
pixie beeUser is Offline

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Posts:4452


12/04/2008 6:44 AM  
I don't know how young your girls are but a word from the wise -
HIDE ALL THE BARBIES!!!

I run into many people who "grew up" with GSPs. Their dad was a hunter and they kept the dog outside. The first thing they comment about the breed is how hyper they are. I question what hyper means to others but I do not consider having energy to be hyper. Hyper is a dog that can not control itself, can not distinguish between when to be calm and when to rev it up, always need to burn engery.
My comment to these people is always the same. It's the line and not the breed. Research lines and pick what's right for you.



"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
TessaGAUser is Offline
Georgia
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Posts:2387


12/04/2008 6:45 AM  
To clarify, there will always be differences between individual dogs, different litters, different lines, show OR hunting. As I said, nothing scientific, I just observations. The hunting dogs I looked at may have been so excited because they were kept in outside kennels and the owners had just arrived - with me - and the dogs were ready to do something with their humans. Anyway, one batch of dogs were so "active" the entire time that my friends, who had accompanied me and were looking into the breed, decided against it right then and there. The show breeder's dogs were much more mellow, possibly because they are also house dogs; they were also in outside kennels but attached to the house and overall it was a totally different living arrangement. Plus of course, different lines, litters, etc.

I commend you for doing the research...keep it up, then go with the breeder/litter YOU are most comfortable with. I am sure you'll be fine.


To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
My creation
DesertRoseKennelUser is Offline

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Posts:1033


12/04/2008 6:46 AM  

Also jumping in here in defense of "hunting" dogs in the house. And mine are "HARD CORE" at least according to many folks - not just wild bird hunters, but also the dreaded "field trial" lines .

Some examples:

Baby Rosie (now Grandma Rosie) and our GSP mix:

Thunder and Willow on the camper bed (even less room than the house)

 

Hemi stinking up the couch..

 

I could go on forever, but you get the idea...

Jean


"Our dogs are bred to be champion hunters who sleep on the bed"
www.desertrosekennel.com
RugergundogUser is Offline
Saginaw Michigan USA
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Posts:395


12/04/2008 6:47 AM  

You may be able to go to perfectpedigrees.com and look up a dog or two of your known dogs and fill the missing holes on your pedigree.  I was able to go back 8 generations on my dog doing this.

Pedigrees of either hunting, showing etc will tell you little of the style of the dog when it comes to hunting and playing.  You  need to see the sire and dam hunt and also see how the puppies interact.

In any event it looks like many of the dogs are tested either in the field or ring....so time is spent with them; i would think they should be good dogs.


Saginaw Michigan
Brittany- Ruger
GSP- Kilian
TessaGAUser is Offline
Georgia
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Posts:2387


12/04/2008 6:47 AM  
Oh, and I would also try to get in touch with people who own dogs from these breeders (maybe the breeder can help with the contact).

To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
My creation
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