I wonder what observations people have made from their breedings or knowledge about different physical traits that come through.  My female is medium light on bone with a decent upper arm length, but  is a little too straight in the front.  She has a nice topline and her rear has medium angle.  I bred her to a male that has more bone (don't they all), with more rear angle and a flatter topline, and moderate front angle and arm length.  My pup that I kept got her sire's rear angle/topline, but has more front angle than either dam or sire.  I am curious as to what folks think caues the flatter topline (more front angle, short upper arm, or a higher rear)? 

Matt

Here are some shots of my female(dam) Trego

Shot of her daugther from her first litte

Shot of Trego's son from first litter

Shot of Sire of the first litter who is also Trego's double grandfather

Shot of the last sire Higgins

Shot of new pup Stella Trego/Higgins litter

Stella brother from this litter, Jake

Last shot is of Carlee the Westminster champ, just to show maybe what a good shorthair looks like.

This past summer I went to a Pat Hasting's Seminar  titled "Structure in Action".  I would highly recommend it to anyone that has any interest in how form effects function. Pat and her late husband evaluated thousands of puppies and also has a video on evaluating the structure in puppies, I believe it is called "The Puppy Puzzle". Bad thing is that after going to this seminar I find myself standing on the sidelines at dog shows evaluating the structure of the dogs in the ring.  You will see pretty quickly that what wins is not always correct.

As far as breeding and what you end up with, it's a crap shoot.  As a breeder you try to look at the faults of your female and find a male that hopefully can correct those faults while keeping what you want.  Not only do you have to look at the two dogs you are breeding but their parents, grandparents, litter mates, etc. then cross your fingers and keep the best puppy from the litter. 

Here is a better photo of the dam Trego with her novice handler(me).

 Better handler Helen Witt with Trego finishing her CH.

I think the differences are just genetic variation.  I have no idea if a flat back or angled is the dominant trait...but i would suspect one is over the other.

I have no idea what is the "true" form for the GSP; or if there ever was one considering the dogs origins stem from hunting ability such as nose, drive, temperment, etc.

I would suspect with there being so many blood lines of the exploited GSP that there are many with each of the different backs out there.

My GSP has a level back; he is male and comes from the Saurkrout(sp) line.

I think this discussion follows suit with other breeds as well.  My Britt has has lower hips than some; yet his legs are a good 2" longer than most.  Much like his Sire......genetic variation.  While some Britts are itty bitty 30lbs mine is 55 and lean.

Good discussion though!

I will admit that I am learning about movement,function and form and am no authority but I do know what I see,what works and what doesn't. To see a dog gallop is very different then a trot,the engery, the propulsion,ect.
Here is an article that is useful for anyone who is begining to learn about form and function:
http://www.el-minjas.com/Movements.htm

When my dogs trot they look more like they are fancy show horses then hunting dogs that bust up the brush.

The more dogs you see move the more you will notice the differences.

I have a video of Haiko trotting. What a beautiful sight. I will try to put it up on youtube.

Bruns333 - that was a nice compliment about Willow - thank you! She actually "floats" when she moves. Very efficient, very elongated movement, no wasted energy. Her brother and her son are even faster and more ground covering than she is - they run like cheetahs - with the high leg return and VERY reaching stretch with the front feet. Both of those boys can sustain speeds of 25-30 mph for 10 miles and not be at all tired afterwards. No exaggeration. All of these field dogs are built lighter in bone than what you would often see in the ring - although Hemi comes close. He is too short to be successful in the ring I fear, although his size is right in the middle of breed standard. Willow and Thunder (her brother) are VERY flexible in the back and often times give the impression that their topline is not great. If you stack them correctly, then you can see that their topline is fine.

All rambling thoughts, but I guess it boils down to my biased opinion. What I see in the show ring is not necessarily what performs well in the field.

Jean

Bruns333 - I agree with you about Fritz, but then I am a bit partial as I have one of his pups.  Ringo is out of Madrone Southwind Chime (Ring) and Fritz.  IMHO an awesome breeding of one DC (Fritz) and another soon to be DC (Ring).

Here is a picture of Ring:

and Fritz:

Ringo seems to be leaning toward his dad in build especially the nice deep chest, shape of head, size (Fritz is 26 inches at the withers and about 60 lbs.), etc., but takes after his great grandfather on his mother's side of the pedigree in coloring.  Of course, at 6 mos it is hard to tell much about how he will come out in the end.  He also has demonstrated nice drive and is very birdie.  At 4.5 months he was out running and finding, pointing birds better than many of the more experienced hunters he was paired with. So far, I am really happy. I will try to take a picture of him and post it, assuming I can get him to stay still long enough.