MOOSE1 Fruitport, MI
 MH Posts:1789


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| 11/20/2008 8:26 PM |
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Here is the situation for you all. I want you input on things I can work on when my dog comes back home to see if we can come over this hump or if he needs to just stay where he is.
Moose is our 2.5 year old male GSP. He was neutered about a month or so ago. Early to Mid summer he started to get agressive towards our dog Rajah whom he grew up with since 8 weeks old. Rajah has never been intact so there should be no issues as far as male you know what going on. It has progressivly gotten worse to the point where he gives no more warning to Rajah and just will go after him in our bedroom or if Rajah is "in his space".
Here is the second situation we are dealing with. Our son is almost 2. Is eye level with Moose and Moose will just growl and shake if our son comes near him. Our son has NEVER mistreated him as we make sure all the dogs and our son are closly supervised. Jayden LOVES to pet the dogs nice and give them hugs and kisses. We can't let him do this to Moose for our concern of Moose not reacting well.
The last straw was on Saturday last week. We were staying in a hotel in Novi, MI and Moose went after Rajah. Unprovoked and with no growl warning. Moose immediatly got put in his crate for the rest of the night. Normaly he will give a growl even but not this time.
It made me really evaluate where we are and what we should do. So here were the things that I went through in my mind.....
1.He ONLY has issues with Rajah. The other male dog. The two females in our home he NEVER has growled or anything at.
2.He has never offered to bite a person but his growling worries me A LOT with our son. What if he is in the wrong place at the wrong time.
3.What if the boys get into it so quickly and fiercly that we can't separate them in time and major damage is done.
So a friend of ours that we do dock jumping with offered to take him for two weeks while we sorted things out on our end etc. This guy has 3 female Goldens. All spayed. So we let him stay with him. He has had no growling issues to this point with the other dogs or with our friend.
I have gotten some great training advice as far as what we could work on as far as curbing his agression issues.
I want your opinions on possibly more training advice for me along with the options of just letting him stay where he is past the two weeks (our friend is willing to try him out for as long as needed in his home to see if he would want to keep him) or do we bring him home next weekend and start the training things that have been suggested and get a muzzle as a just incase type of thing......
I am very attatched to Moose and he and I both went through some major emotional times Sunday,Monday and Tuesday. But he has really started to mesh well at his "vacation" home and I am starting to settle in with out him here and trying to wead through everything and make the right decision!
HELP! |
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Rajah-APBT- USUV UMJCH Flying High Rajah-TDI Certified Phoenix-GSP- USJCH UWP GRCH BNJ Shooters Rising Phoenix-CGC Tested Cody- GSP- AKC/CKC CH UKC UWP GRCH Legacyk n Estate Sunray Minor FDJ CGC Tested Tucson-UJJ CH Legacyk FlwrCrk The Old Peublo Rumor-UMJ URO1 GRCH BNJ Rumor Has It-RN RD CGC NA II
www.ezydog.com |
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Almost Heaven GSP Springfield, WV
 MH Posts:731


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| 11/20/2008 9:40 PM |
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Beth, I'm sorry to say this, but you CAN NOT trust him with your son. Next time, he may not growl at him or give warning either and from the sounds of it, sooner or later he WILL strike out at your son as well. The 1st thing you are going to absolutely have to rule out, is health problems. He is going to need to see a Vet to rule out any issues health wise. Tumors and other such health issues seem to lead to aggression quite a bit. I'm going to consider what you have stated a bit more before going further in my reply, so as to not "shoot from the hip", but I have serious concerns for what it sounds like you are dealing with. |
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Money will buy a fine dog, but only kindness will make him wag his tail.
Bruce Shaffer Almost Heaven GSP's
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DesertRoseKennel
 MH Posts:1033

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| 11/20/2008 10:09 PM |
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I'm with Bruce. Growling at humans has honestly never happened in my house, but I promise you it would be dealt with swiftly. If we had a toddler in the house it would ZERO TOLERANCE to the extreme. I personally would not have the dog in my house because I would worry that my son was at risk if I were in your shoes.
Growling at another dog and fighting is another issue, and if you didn't have a toddler in the house, you may be able to work through that. However, your situation is different. Your son could get seriously injured if he got caught in the middle of a dogfight.
My heart goes out to you. It's not easy to make this decision. Your child comes first though. Before ANY dog.
My two cents - Jean |
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"Our dogs are bred to be champion hunters who sleep on the bed" www.desertrosekennel.com |
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Marie Wisconsin
 MH Posts:2721


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| 11/20/2008 10:28 PM |
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Beth, I have to agree with Bruce. It brings such tears and heartache to part with a dog you raised from a pup. Jayden is number one and if Moose is a possible threat to him, he has to go. Cause think of the deeper pain you would feel of Moose bit Jaydon. That would be a worse pain.
I know this cause we lived thur this with a Lab pup will adopted from our neighbors who bred Labs. Sterling was beautiful Lab and good around everyone except our youngest son, Dennis who was 8 years old at the time. One night in our livingroom, Sterling was laying on his rug chewing on a bone. Dennis cuddled around Sterlings head while chewing and bit Dennis in the face with no warning. We decided that night we had to place Sterling in a home who had no children. There were many tears shed at the time, especially when his new adopted forever Mom came to get him. Our older Son Mike, being a typical older brother who loved Sterling and scrabbled with his little brother said,"Get rid of Dennis and we will keep Sterling." as a solution to the problem. Until we found Sterling his new home I had to place a muzzle on him when Dennis and his friends were over to play. Mike and his friends, Sterling was OK cause they were older and calmer. It was a very sad time.
Will pray for you and your family to make the right decision as it is very tough. |
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Marie and Rocky, a tall, high energy GSP http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab18/Annette_Merryfield/100_0285.jpg?t=1287205231 |
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MegC Ellensburg, WA
 MH Posts:989


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| 11/20/2008 11:06 PM |
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| Beth- I'm SO sorry you're having to deal with this. I have no advice.... Just lots of sympathy and prayers that the right decision is made soon, and that everyone is safe in the meantime. |
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Megan + Dulcie (Lehmschlog's The Right Spot) + Rogan (Lehmschlog's BR Rogan) + Anya (Lehmschlog's Anya O Conchobar) Intro to harness sport/mushing- start here! |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4448


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| 11/21/2008 5:20 AM |
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This is a difficult,fustrating time. There is no way you can put your child in harms way. No dog or person is worth it. If Jayden gets bit or traumatised by Moose he will have the rest of his life to remember it and he is to young and small to carry it around for so long. Think how small Jayden is and how powerful Moose is. If any dog,I mean any dog, growled at my children, the owner would be told under no uncertain terms to keep that dog away from my children or I would do it for them. If it were my dog I would make sure that dog knew to never do that again and that dog would be out of my home that moment. There is nothing more precious than a child and the happiness they have can never be turned to fear because the parents were considering the feeling of a dog. I am sad for you situation but it sounds as tho Moose has a good place for now and is doing well. Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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MOOSE1 Fruitport, MI
 MH Posts:1789


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| 11/21/2008 6:35 AM |
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Thank you all for your advice. Letting him stay with the person he is with is what I have been leaning towards but I am the type of person that feels like I was a failure if I don't try anything possible! Moose was at the vet about a month ago and was checked over healthy as well. I would think it if was a health issue as well that it wouldn't matter where he lived he would still act this way. And he hasn't been at the place where he is at. Please by no means think that any of our dogs are taking presidents over our son. But you all know how attatched one gets to there canine partners. It is almost liking giving up a child when having to give up one of them.... |
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Rajah-APBT- USUV UMJCH Flying High Rajah-TDI Certified Phoenix-GSP- USJCH UWP GRCH BNJ Shooters Rising Phoenix-CGC Tested Cody- GSP- AKC/CKC CH UKC UWP GRCH Legacyk n Estate Sunray Minor FDJ CGC Tested Tucson-UJJ CH Legacyk FlwrCrk The Old Peublo Rumor-UMJ URO1 GRCH BNJ Rumor Has It-RN RD CGC NA II
www.ezydog.com |
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Mydogiscrazy Chapel Hill NC
 MH Posts:323


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| 11/21/2008 6:44 AM |
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Beth, I am sorry to hear this. You really love your dogs and put your energy into making them their best. No advice here, but just my thoughts for you. I had a dog bite my best friend's little sister, and I cried and cried but didn't think twice when my beloved dog bit my beloved "little sister". Hopefully it never comes to this for you. |
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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 11/21/2008 6:52 AM |
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I feel for you...that is really sad. But it's a volatile situation. Not only are dogfights a pain to deal with, you have your son to worry about as well. Also, there can come a situation where your son may trigger a fight between the two, just by being there (sometimes the dynamics of the moment change in ways not always immediately clear to us), and/or can become a victim if a dogfight breaks out close to him, as fighting dogs are known to bite anything near them, not just the other dog, in the heat of the moment and out of frustration. So I would let the dog go, especially since you are lucky enough that you already have a good new home for him, with a friend at that. That said, re health checks, I still agree with Bruce that there could be underlying causes for the aggression that may not be evident from a routine check-up. I don't know what all your vet checked. I think hypothyroidism has aggression as one symptom, so I would have his thyroid checked. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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flygirl Muncy, PA
 MH Posts:409


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| 11/21/2008 7:05 AM |
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Beth,
My heart goes out to you. I feel your pain. I was an ER nurse for many years, now a flight nurse for many years and have seen the devastation, both physically and mentally, from dogs bites in both the young and the old.
I took in a doberman mix puppy many years ago as he was abandoned by a family in the local housing project. The plan was to get him healthy and to find a home for him. Well, he and my lab puppy, same age ,got along so well that he became part of the family for almost 8 years. I had him put down after he grabbed the neighbor boys hand when he went to pet him. I couldn't put another child/adult through a bite after taking care of many in the ED as I didn't know what this dogs family lines were. It was a very agonizing painful decision for me but one that I had made when I decided to keep him. So I can feel your pain because I know how much you love your Moose. I know this is not your exact situation but very similar and I know how agonizing it is. All of your children (human and fur) mean the world to you. Please know that you are in our thoughts and prayers as you go through this situation.
Deb |
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Benelli Abby RIP Dutchess - 2000-2010 Cheyney the cat |
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unowhoandwhy Middleofnowhere, NH
 MH Posts:1805


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| 11/21/2008 7:07 AM |
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I am so sorry to hear about this, it isn't an easy situation no matter what happens. I'd have to agree with the people who said that if it was just dog on dog aggression it could be dealt with, but with a child involved you just shouldn't take the chance. If you have somewhere for Moose to live where he is loved and is showing no aggression then that would seem to be the best choice out of all the difficult choices you could make. Not that it makes giving him to someone else any easier, but at least no one has been physically hurt & I am assuming you will still be able to visit? Whatever you decide, know that our hearts go out to you! |
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Daniel Yankee Flyer - 8/2002 Lady Layla - 1/2006 |
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Marie Wisconsin
 MH Posts:2721


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| 11/21/2008 7:41 AM |
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This will be hard to do no matter what, but you could look at it as placing a dog in a positive invironment for the new family to love like not other. Sterling went to a family in where there was fence yard, the husband was a cross country truck driver and their son was 17 years old.(not small child). Sterling's new forever Mom, needed a big dog to live with as she was afraid of being alone in the house when her husband traveled.
Do not feel like a failure you need to do something else in training, I felt that way and one of my neighbors who loved Sterling felt like he ruined Sterling, felt guilty as he trained past dogs and felt he could have trained Sterling not to be a bite dog with children..
. Good news for you too, you have other furkins to dry your tears on their long GSP ears.
About the same time another well meaning person dropped a 3 yr old high energy GSP with us named Dixie. Their baby son was allergic to Dixie so had to place her right now in another home. She was not a biter, but she did not like little boys fighting. When our sons would rumble in our livingroom, she would bark them into separate corners. So I ended up placing her in a home with 3 fighting boys who Mom had shot nerves from her boys fighting. The 3 boys lived on a farm,spent alot of hours playing ball with Dixie outside and ceased their fighting in the house around their Mom. We cried when Dixie went out the door with her new family too, even though we only had her 6 months. She was a lover and would lay on my lap at night on the couch...Finally our next door neighbor found Snickers, our Chese/lab girl who we kept, loved, was gun shy, but made a great family house dog.
I greatly admire those who foster dogs, cause it must be although happy to find a new Forever Home, there has to be a tinge of sadness in your heart when the Foster goes out your door to the new home for the final time. |
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Marie and Rocky, a tall, high energy GSP http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab18/Annette_Merryfield/100_0285.jpg?t=1287205231 |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4448


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| 11/21/2008 7:58 AM |
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Oh Gosh, please don't feel like a failure. You are not responsible for the dog's behaviors or actions. It is what it is and Moose was put in your care from the begining b/c "the powers that be" knew you would find the right place for Moose when his tendencies eventually showed themsleves. He will have a good life now that he is in a home that knows, undersatnds and is aware of his tendencies. Just look at Jayden and listen to him laugh and you will know you made the best choice for all envolved. It could have been a lot worse. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Central.Wa.GSPs
 MH Posts:314


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| 11/21/2008 2:53 PM |
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What type of food are you feeding him? What is his exercise schedule? I know that might seem like silly questions but there are certain brands of dog foods out there that are recalled all the time because they cause different problems with dogs. I have two female gsps. Maggie is 5 and she can out of no where become aggressive with Bailey our 2.5 year old. Its mainly a dominance issue and we have come to control the issue with simple things like making them both sit and wait for their food right next to each other and i ALWAYS give Bailey her food first and make Maggie wait, letting her know that I am the dominate one in the pack. Now everyone meshes and there hasn't been any random aggression. Hope all goes well. |
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-Jessica- *Bailey* GSP *Lily* GSP * RIP: Maggie Mae* GSP
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7835


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MOOSE1 Fruitport, MI
 MH Posts:1789


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| 11/21/2008 3:16 PM |
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All our dogs are on Nutro Natural Choice dog food. This isn't something that is just at feeding times and such. And each dog does sit and wait for their food. So that has been done since they were all little. His exercise schedule is pretty good. I don't have a specific number of miles of walking etc. on a daily basis but that too is something that isn't lacking by any means. I think the bottom line just like all the other said is it isn't worth taking the risk of our son getting hurt at this point. If it were just a dog issue that would be something we can work with and have worked with in the past. But when our 2 year old is involved it is something we shouldn't be playing around with! |
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Rajah-APBT- USUV UMJCH Flying High Rajah-TDI Certified Phoenix-GSP- USJCH UWP GRCH BNJ Shooters Rising Phoenix-CGC Tested Cody- GSP- AKC/CKC CH UKC UWP GRCH Legacyk n Estate Sunray Minor FDJ CGC Tested Tucson-UJJ CH Legacyk FlwrCrk The Old Peublo Rumor-UMJ URO1 GRCH BNJ Rumor Has It-RN RD CGC NA II
www.ezydog.com |
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MegC Ellensburg, WA
 MH Posts:989


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| 11/21/2008 3:24 PM |
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Posted By MOOSE1 on 11/21/2008 3:16 PM
... If it were just a dog issue that would be something we can work with and have worked with in the past. But when our 2 year old is involved it is something we shouldn't be playing around with!
FWIW this is where I'd come out on it. Kids change our lives, abilities, and priorities in all kinds of ways. I know there are people who would argue otherwise, but I think rehoming Moose is a very reasonable course of action.
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Megan + Dulcie (Lehmschlog's The Right Spot) + Rogan (Lehmschlog's BR Rogan) + Anya (Lehmschlog's Anya O Conchobar) Intro to harness sport/mushing- start here! |
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Ace1cappuccino Carp Lake, Michigan
 MH Posts:1618


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| 11/21/2008 8:28 PM |
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Yeah, I think that is for the best. I have been bit a few times growing up. One was my aunt's Doberman. I was playing ball with her a d was called in for lunch. I ran for the house and she bit me. I also when I was 15 got in the middle of our two collies. They were brothers and both jumped on the bed and got into it BAD! I got it a couple times. We had to have them put down So sorry Beth. My heart goes out to you! Re homing sounds like the best option to me too. Alot better than the other option for sure. Hope it all works out. Will he still dock jump? |
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Cornell's GSP'S- Mocha cappuccino, Lili Belle Lotte, Sir Leopold Vom Hunter 1, Lil Miss Lotte Doddi, Ace Hunter Twisted Mister(GSP'S)  
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MOOSE1 Fruitport, MI
 MH Posts:1789


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| 11/21/2008 9:31 PM |
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Thank you all very much for your kind words. It means a lot to me. I just got an email from our friend and Moose is having a blast now that he has adjusted. He is playing with the Golden retrievers that he has. I know he is happy. But my heart is just split in two right now with tears rolling down my cheeks. Our friend told me he wants to start doing some field work with Moose but has never worked with a pointing dog just retrievers and asked about Moose's past training. So me being the sappy emotional mom I am with my dogs just lost it cause it hurts so much to think of him hunting and doing it with out me! Just when I thought I was coming to grips with this thing it hits like a tone of bricks! I know you all understand and that is why I can write it here and need to so I can get some kind of support! Bill- I hope Moose will continue to dock jump. Though that really wasn't a passion for him. Hunting was his passion. He did dock jumping to make me happy! :0) But our friend is much an avid dock jumper so I am sure he will try to keep having him jump. Can you just imagine the first dock jumping competition I am at and how I will probably break down crying cause he is jumping for someone else! Geesh :0) |
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Rajah-APBT- USUV UMJCH Flying High Rajah-TDI Certified Phoenix-GSP- USJCH UWP GRCH BNJ Shooters Rising Phoenix-CGC Tested Cody- GSP- AKC/CKC CH UKC UWP GRCH Legacyk n Estate Sunray Minor FDJ CGC Tested Tucson-UJJ CH Legacyk FlwrCrk The Old Peublo Rumor-UMJ URO1 GRCH BNJ Rumor Has It-RN RD CGC NA II
www.ezydog.com |
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Mydogiscrazy Chapel Hill NC
 MH Posts:323


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| 11/21/2008 10:25 PM |
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| sounds like maybe you can visit and take him for a hunt every so often? no need to cut all ties afterall. |
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