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Subject: Advice on picking a pup
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List_HouseUser is Offline
Midland, Pa (western, Pa)
MH
MH
Posts:142


11/17/2008 7:54 AM  

I have always wanted a GSP since seeing one at a hunting club when I was 12.  Now 32 and I am finally getting one.  I have read a book about gun dog training (very old) and have ordered the Perfect start videos.  But I have not found anything that really helps on how to pick the pup!  I have first choice of the males and will be picking in a few weeks.  The pups are 2hrs away so it is going to be a one time shot to my pick.  They will be about 5 weeks old when the breeder has asked me to make my pick so he can get the other folks in to pick before 8 weeks.  I am going to use the dog to hunt/track but first and for most It will be a family pet.  I want a calm house dog, that will train and hunt well.  Not to picky right!

When you picked your pup what did you do?  How did you pick?  How did it turn out? 

bruns333User is Offline
Central Ohio
MH
MH
Posts:383


11/17/2008 8:17 AM  

House, I would let the breeder help you pick out the best fit for your situation.  If you have first pick, then you should be able to wait a reasonable amount of time and pick towards the end of the period before the pups go to their new homes.  I would let first pick make their decision up to the end as long as it didn't hold up anyone from getting their pups timely.  They grow and change alot from 5-8 weeks.  icking puppies is a crap shoot, but the longer you can wait the better.  I would also go over and see them and spend some time before coming back to pick it up.  A couple of hours should not stop you.


Where temperament means performance
http://silverbulletshorthairs.com/
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=721 R.I.P Trego 6-1-03 to 10-13-10
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=941
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=3626
MorrisonUser is Offline
Twin Cities, MN
MH
MH
Posts:111


11/17/2008 8:26 AM  
I agree with bruns333. Ask the breeder lots of questions and visit even though it is really hard to leave without your pup. Also ask the breeder if your pup, once picked out, can stay with Mom and litter until 10 or even 12 weeks old. This makes a HUGE difference in the socialization skills of your dog and you really want that from a part of the family.

As far as what to look for when you are there... I move around a lot and watch to see if the pup follows me. I run away and see if the pup follows. I watch to see how they play with their littermates, it should be a rough and tumble play respecting each others warning nips and yelps. I chat with the breeder about their personalities, fun, joking, attached, sleepy, sniffy etc etc

pixie beeUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:4448


11/17/2008 8:30 AM  
All breeding is a crap shoot.
You can do some tests to assess the nose quality but that's about it. If you had a really good eye you could also assess the conformation but that's a toughie even for the ones who know what they are doing. You won't know how calm a dog is, how well it will train or how it will hunt and track until it gets older. About 9 months old and then around 3 years old and you will just about know everything there is to know about a dog.
The best advice I give on this subject is to let the dog pick you. Which ever dog comes to you consistantly, that's the dog for you. Some people go for the boldest, but those dogs are usually better for experienced trainers. The other end of the spectrum is usually a no-no,too. You don't want a timid or soft dog as a first dog. These dogs don't bounce back well and are not "forgiving. At 5 weeks tho, their personalities are just coming out.
I would take a hot dog with me, place a piece outside somewhere, not difficult to find but not to close to the where the puppy is and take out each dog one at a time and see who finds it first, no human assisstence. You can also take something for retrieving and see how each dog reacts to it. Take each puppy out individually and let him see you throw the item. Not 100%, but most likely I would choose the dog who ran to it, picked it up and made a motion back to me. These instincts sometimes don't develop this young but if you need to make a choice for a hunting partner then you have to start somewhere.
The 2 dogs we have now we only saw a picture. I did have the pick of our last puppy tho. The breeder was kind to work with me on this. A knowledgable, trust worthy breeder is worth their weight in gold.

The parents and grandparents are your best bet for getting what you want. Many people, including me, will only take a puppy that has a proven, documented heritage. Dogs with innate ability are the dogs that will pass along that ability. Much can be covered up by a trainer. When a dog is titled but does not pass along what you see, it is most likely that the trainer is more talented then the dog.
Good luck, you'll do just fine,
Francine


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
SG333eUser is Offline
IL
JH
JH
Posts:21


11/17/2008 9:32 AM  

My requirements were similar to yours, maybe even more like 99% pet with young kids and 1% hunting/agility/biking, outdoor buddy.  

I agree with everyone's comments about the breeders judgement.  I originally called our breeder about the female she had.  When I explained the requirements above, she steered me to their remaining male.  The female was very birdy and she was concerned we might not be able to appease her prey drive, vs the male who was "a mellow fellow". 


Photobucket
List_HouseUser is Offline
Midland, Pa (western, Pa)
MH
MH
Posts:142


11/17/2008 9:44 AM  

Thanks for the responses.  The breeder has asked that I come around DEC 13 to make my pick.  They were whelped NOV 1.  Should I push back on the breeder and see if I can wait a little longer? 

Pixie as far as the pedigree I don't know much about the history but I do see some FC, MH, DC, AFC and so on in the bloodlines.  So I think they should be good pups.  Here is a link anyone interested and tell Me what you think?  Eric did mention that he got the Dam because he wanted Rawhide line.  I thought he said he was the only 3x CH???

http://www.warriorsmark.com/gs_pups.htm

All your help and comments are greatly appreciated.

Nate

pixie beeUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:4448


11/17/2008 11:05 AM  
Nate,
the pedigree looks nice.
If you would consider checking out NAVHDA you may have some fun and get a title or 2 on your boy. Be careful tho, it can be addicting.
A good dog is a good dog. Pedigrees don't make the dog they just increase the chances of getting what you want.
One question I always like to feel out is how many of the puppies, in past litters, were trained and handled by novices. What their experiences were and if the dogs were tested. At what ages,what was the main method of training and what the results are. And the same questions go for the parents.
Looks like your getting yourself quite a little doggie.


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
MegCUser is Offline
Ellensburg, WA
MH
MH
Posts:989


11/17/2008 11:13 AM  
Looks like the pups should be hunters, although it's harder to know exactly what you're getting from the bottom of the dam's side since there's no letters. Also might be a good sized dog since the parents are a little larger than the field dogs I'm used to.

As far as picking pups, I would interview the breeder hard and see what their vision and goals are for their 'perfect dog'. Are they willing to scour the country for sires that meet their criteria, or are the working more locally? How long have they been breeding dogs and what is their level of investment in the breed? Who have they learned from, get advice from (this is really important IMO with breeders newer in the game- they should be seeking guidance from the 'been there done that' crowd if they don't have personal experience to draw from). What is perfect build/ability/temperament/health to them, how do they make that assessment, how important are those items in their overall picture, and what makes a dog not breedable in their mind? Then assuming the answers were favorable, I'd try to meet them and some dogs they own/have bred and see if it meshes up with what you'd want to live with for the next 15 years.

After all that.... picking actual pups is a gamble. The prep work is just about stacking the deck in your favor.

Megan
+ Dulcie (Lehmschlog's The Right Spot) + Rogan (Lehmschlog's BR Rogan) + Anya (Lehmschlog's Anya O Conchobar)
Intro to harness sport/mushing- start here!
bruns333User is Offline
Central Ohio
MH
MH
Posts:383


11/17/2008 11:38 AM  
IMHO I would not get a pup from a breeder that said I had to get it at 6 weeks. What is their hurry? The longer they stay the better. Some breeders are going to more like 10 weeks for pick up. Sire has a real nice pedigree, but he isn't 2 years old yet so you don't know for sure what he is. No matter what you do, good luck and enjoy.

Matt

Where temperament means performance
http://silverbulletshorthairs.com/
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=721 R.I.P Trego 6-1-03 to 10-13-10
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=941
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=3626
TessaGAUser is Offline
Georgia
MH
MH
Posts:2387


11/17/2008 12:12 PM  

Assuming that you already found a responsible breeder, my approach would be:

1. Look at the litter and look for the shyest one (the one that hangs back, and the boldest, most aggressive one (the bully) and elminate these two no matter how quiet and adorable or bold-cute they may be.

2. Look at the rest and try really hard not to get hung up on markings etc. and run the Volhard test on the pups, it should narrow it down some.

www.workingdogs.com/testing_volhard.htm

3. Examine closely for conformation and structure and narrow it down some more. Then I guess you can look for markings, or let the pup pick you.

Ideally, this should happpen with the breeder's help. I once picked a dog this way and the breeder was most helpful in explaining and pointing out things about each pup. They were 8 weeks old at the time but I understand that preliminary testing can be done as young as 5 weeks.

My current dog was picked by my breeder. I didn't know they had any dogs available and just emailed them what I was looking for, my lifestyle and the temperament I like to see in my dog and she said she had the perfect pup -  11 weeks old already so that may have made it easier to match us up. So far, she's absolutely perfect and exactly what I was looking for.

Still a crapshoot, of course.


To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
My creation
bravepointUser is Offline
North Gower, ON Canada
MH
MH
Posts:894


11/17/2008 12:15 PM  
Matt,

I think Nate has to make his selection of which puppy Dec. 13th so that those behind him in the picking order can make theirs. Pixie's advice to pick the puppy that picks you is good. I would describe to the breeder exactly what you're looking for in a GSP and let them steer you in the right direction. We know our puppies best! I "help" puppy people decide and don't hesitate to tell someone if I think the puppy they pick is going to be too much dog for them.

Gail

Gail, Moka, Avery, Terra & Rayne
Bravepoint GSPs
Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
MH
MH
Posts:7836


11/18/2008 5:12 PM  

I would push back on the breeder on when you have to make your pick.  My breeder and I talked all along and I had pictures.  I also new the mother as I had another female out of her.  I had my preferences, but didn't make the final selection until I went down to pick him up at 8 weeks.  We had several very respected breeders there that evening as there was a big show that weekend in Houston, so I was lucky again as I got lots of advice on my male pick.  Turned out it was the one I liked at the very beginning when I saw the two day old pictures.  I will tell you though that I must have changed my mind a million times before the final pick. 

Listen to what the others have said to you in this thread.  For me in the end it is also about that special bond that happens between a puppy and you when you meet.  I have always said my dogs pick me, and Ringo, my male, was no different.  He also happened to answer the mail for the best conformation and hunting ability too.  I was lucky.

Good luck on your pick and don't forget to take pictures.


Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
briarpatchUser is Offline
N.J.
MH
MH
Posts:168


11/18/2008 5:37 PM  
I agree listen carefully to the breeder if you believe this is a trustworthy responsible breeder..hopefully they will be giving good advice and help you narrow the search down to 2 or 3 pups with simular qualities that you are looking for..Hopefully you have done your homework on the breeder and can trust their input. If this is the case then outta the 2 or 3 is simple let your heart guide you.

My Pups:

List_HouseUser is Offline
Midland, Pa (western, Pa)
MH
MH
Posts:142


11/18/2008 7:36 PM  

Thank you all for the great advice.  I have been going crazy waiting for the forum to come back up.  I spoke to the breeder and I like thier attitude and ideas.  They told Me how they wanted rawhide line so the sent across the country for that....I didn't know what rawhide is so I looked around and found most of the kennels in the pedigree which seemed like good kennels as well.  I feel really good when I get the positive feedback from some experinced folks like you.  I look forward to sharing stories, pictures and ideas in the future. They will send profile pictures of them in a week or so.  Here are the males I have the first pick.

pixie beeUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:4448


11/19/2008 5:19 AM  

One thing I noticed is that altho they purchase  puppies from titled parents and raise them and use titled studs, they do not hunt test in any venue. (That I could see.)What this says is that you are buying a puppy based soley on the breeder's ideas of quality,breedable traits of the parents.
I don't have a problem with this just it would send up a reg flag,especially if I myself didn't know anything about hunting dogs.
Also, there are quite a few FT dogs, many with MH titles. One thing to be aware of is how bold and independent these pups are expected to be.



"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
TreyUser is Offline
SW Iowa
MH
MH
Posts:516


11/19/2008 6:31 AM  
Well, A huge red flag to me is anyone dealing with that many breeds. And, the biggests is this males name should start with 'outlander' they changed the reg paper to add their kennel name in front to make it appear they bred him. He was never na tested, which I know the breeder wants all of them na tested.
That said I am very familar with the male, his breeder is a good friend of mine, I have hunted with his mother and grandmother many times. His grandmother is one of the nicest, hardest driving, and toughest dogs I know.
And, of course they do no testing or trialing to prove their dogs.
pixie beeUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:4448


11/19/2008 7:40 AM  
I wrote a reply the other day and then thought better of it and did not post it and in that reply I mentioned about the multiple breeds and the breeder of the sire.
This does not imply the pups will not be all that you are looking for in a puppy.
These are questions you need to ask the breeder, as it is unfair to talk about the kennel or the breedings w/o the kennel here to state their reasons for their actions.




"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
TessaGAUser is Offline
Georgia
MH
MH
Posts:2387


11/19/2008 7:42 AM  
Trey, just out of curiosity, why stay away from a kennel with different breeds?

I almost got a dog from a multi-breed breeder. Decided against it for other reasons. The only thing I didn't like about the multiple breed set-up was it seemed like a bigger operation than I would be comfortable with. Are there other drawbacks?

To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
My creation
TreyUser is Offline
SW Iowa
MH
MH
Posts:516


11/19/2008 9:05 AM  
Just MO, if you have that many breeds how much time are you spending trying to improve any (not talking about this person in particular) but, knowing how many hours it takes to develop on dog to it's potential, learning about bloodlines and how they mix or don't mix, traveling to see other dogs, other bloodlines. IMO it would be impossible to do it with that many breeds (again not talking about folks with 2 or somthing, that put the time and effort into proving their line, and undertand what direction they are moving toward and breed toward that end goal).
My personal opinion, I am going to get a gs from someone that specializes in them, understands them and the many bloodlines and what they will produce (IE, high drive, high energy dogs not right for first time dog owners that don't have the knowledge or expierience to handle it, or more cooperative, easy going dogs that anyone can handle and be happy).
JMO!
BTW if the OP would like to talk to the breeder of the male, I can give you her phone number, she would be more then happy to speak to you about it. Just PM me.
Almost Heaven GSPUser is Offline
Springfield, WV
MH
MH
Posts:731


11/19/2008 9:23 AM  
List-House,

I suspect you may be close to me and if you would like to talk directly to an owner of one of their(WM) pups, PM me and I'll send you their contact info. This is a dog I've been working with, as well as the owner. I think you may be buying more dog than you are expecting, but that will be up to you to decide.

Money will buy a fine dog, but only kindness will make him wag his tail.

Bruce Shaffer
Almost Heaven GSP's
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