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Ace1cappuccino
Carp Lake, Michigan
MH
Posts:1618
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| 11/26/2008 4:24 PM |
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| I will try that this week and see. I will let you know. |
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Cornell's GSP'S- Mocha cappuccino, Lili Belle Lotte, Sir Leopold Vom Hunter 1, Lil Miss Lotte Doddi, Ace Hunter Twisted Mister(GSP'S)  
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Rugergundog
Saginaw Michigan USA
MH
Posts:395
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| 11/28/2008 9:45 AM |
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I did not read all the respones...too dang many. But gun shy in specific is not passed along; but dogs who may be more predispositioned to being fearful is.
If the dog in general is not everly shy its likely it was spooked by a bang and is just "gun shy". Depending on how much exposure it has had to what scared him, it could be reversed. Repetition and exposure to sounds followed by reward is the only way to find out. Start mild and work your way louder. Lots of praise and lots of reward.!!! But at 4 years old it may not work. 1/3 of its useful hunting life is over already. |
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Saginaw Michigan
Brittany- Ruger
GSP- Kilian |
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Almost Heaven GSP
Springfield, WV
MH
Posts:732
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| 11/29/2008 9:57 AM |
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Posted By pixie bee on 11/25/2008 10:45 AM
I am inclined to think that a dog that blinks,is bird shy and gun shy may be better off as a pet. I say this b/c training is time consuming and may turn out to be unproductive. If you have the time and don't mind the possible disappointment then I say go for it. The dog will benifit from it in the long run anyway.
I can't really agree with this Pixie. I had a female Shorthair last March that thankfully the owner wasn't willing to just give up on. She blinked, but rather than blinking the bird was blinking the situation. More specificall, she was blinking the situation that included a gunshot after the flush. After a short evaluation I told him she was gunshy and I could likely fix her and worked with her for 5 weeks, at the end of which she was standing through the shot and would come running at the sound of a shot to see where the bird was. She is still kind of lack luster about "training set-ups", not a lot of style, but is absolute He!! on Grouse. He couldn't be happier with how she has now turned out on Grouse this Fall and thankfully for her, did not feel she would just make a good pet. |
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Money will buy a fine dog, but only kindness will make him wag his tail.
Bruce Shaffer
Almost Heaven GSP's
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4473
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| 11/30/2008 9:26 PM |
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Bruce,
I believe my entire post supports what you wrote,especially my last 3 sentences. Biggest factor here tho is that you are a pro and Ace1 is not. When it comes to problem solving this can make all the difference.
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Trey
SW Iowa
MH
Posts:516
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| 12/03/2008 5:37 AM |
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| Bruce, not seeing this dog you are talking about, I would guess it had been made bird shy, which often presents as gun shy. The dog is made this way by being wacked with a collar for taking out, and or chasing birds, when the dog has not been collar conditioned and doesn't know that it shouldn't be doing it. They initially appear to be gun shy, but they have just put two and two together and associate the sound of the gun with the collar, birds make the gun go off, there fore they blink birds and spook at the gun.These dogs are not scared of other noises, or situations and are mentally stable. These dogs are an easy fix (lots of birds with not corrections not matter what the dog does, then going back and properly training). Not saying this was the case with you friends dog Bruce, just that is it pretty comman, unfortunetly. And, most of the dog I get as gun shy, this is the real problem, I won't even touch what I consider truely gun shy. |
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Almost Heaven GSP
Springfield, WV
MH
Posts:732
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| 12/03/2008 8:06 AM |
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Pixie,
I guess the point I'm trying to make is to not suggest making the pup a pet until all avenues to fix it have been taken and the dog has simply proven, there is no alternative.
Trey,
Nah, not bird shy at all. This dog would chase with wreckless abandon and if allowed to just find a bird on a casual walk, would point with great style and as allowed, would shortly break point and try to roust the bird up for a good chase; but if she thought for 1 second it was a training set up, you were carrying a gun, pulled out a blank gun, started to walk forward of her, or made it appear to be a training set up in your actions as you walked in... she'd pull off point and go about her merry way. When I first diagnosed her, we worked her into a bird and she stopped 20-30 yards short and just stood there looking at me and the owner. Wouldn't advance and wouldn't point, but there was no mistaking she knew the bird was there. I walked forward of her and kicked around a bit and just flew the bird. She watched it for just a split moment and then immediately turned her focus to me, then back to the bird and then back to me.... she was waiting for that shot. 2nd bird, same scenario. She watched me like a hawk waiting for that shot. 3rd bird, she came in and jammed point and rather than moving forward, I just stood back and waited for her to move and then flew the bird with no shot and she chased like a mad-woman. Also, while running her with another pup during evaluation, they were out 100 yards and I fired a acorn blank and she was back to the owners side in a blink.
Definitely Gunshy. |
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Money will buy a fine dog, but only kindness will make him wag his tail.
Bruce Shaffer
Almost Heaven GSP's
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Ace1cappuccino
Carp Lake, Michigan
MH
Posts:1618
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| 12/03/2008 11:11 AM |
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| Stud is only two years old right now. He has NEVER had a shock collar on yet. He is a bit of a soft dog and since he was pretty much afraid of our pigeons I spent more time with our new female and my other shorthairs. I just can't figure why he will bo balls out after doves and actually kills red squirrels. He will recall fine, heels great and so on. I have even dizzied the pigeons and he finds them quicker than the little girl does. But as soon as he sees that pigeon and it moves he's gone! I am not terribly concerned and it is more of a challenge to me. I would love to hunt him but if he ends up just being my daughter's pet I am ok with that too. He is not as easy to work with as the rest either, but obedience wise I couldn't ask for a better boy. |
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Cornell's GSP'S- Mocha cappuccino, Lili Belle Lotte, Sir Leopold Vom Hunter 1, Lil Miss Lotte Doddi, Ace Hunter Twisted Mister(GSP'S)
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Trey
SW Iowa
MH
Posts:516
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| 12/03/2008 1:51 PM |
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| I guess instead of saying being made bird shy I should have said, the dog associates birds and then the gun with getting wacked (e collar). They present as gun and or bird shy. A few questions to the owners about what/how they have tryed to train usually gets to the bottom of it pretty quick.They have good prey drive and a normal temperment, just don't understand the collar. Again, not saying this is the case with the dog in question, just adding to the confusion of gun/bird/situation shy type dogs, or what can cause it besides a crappy gene pool. |
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Ace1cappuccino
Carp Lake, Michigan
MH
Posts:1618
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| 12/04/2008 4:11 PM |
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That's why I can't figure him out. I have never put an e collar on him. He does do the "blinking" I guess. He will find the bird and just leave it unless I get him super excited.
Whereas my pack (other 4) pretty much drools in anticipation of the bird. I have even tried the chain gang so he can watch me work the others but that's not working. I guess he'll just stay my daughter's pet. |
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Cornell's GSP'S- Mocha cappuccino, Lili Belle Lotte, Sir Leopold Vom Hunter 1, Lil Miss Lotte Doddi, Ace Hunter Twisted Mister(GSP'S)
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4473
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| 12/04/2008 4:35 PM |
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| Have you tried other game birds? Some dogs who are trained on pigeons don't bother with pigeons after a while, they ignore them. Hide a chukar or quail that has had it wings taped and she what he does. What I would do is take him for a run in a big field and at the end have the field littered with taped, well covered game birds and see what he does. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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MOOSE1
Fruitport, MI
MH
Posts:1789
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| 12/04/2008 7:09 PM |
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Bill-
Like Pixie said take him out on other birds but pigions. Let him have a blast with the birds. Let the birds fly and let him go find them again. Start from scratch with him. If you want you can come down and we can run him on the preserve for a day and such. Leave the gun in the truck and let him have a ball like he was a young pup again. (not that he is much more than that now being just 2).
Then have someone work the gun from a very far distance (not shooting the bird) and work closer and closer. Over several days. I would think eventualy he will associate the gun with those BIRDS!  |
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www.ezydog.com |
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