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Subject: Love/hate relationship with 8 month old GSP
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mdawv1User is Offline


Posts:8


08/16/2008 1:44 PM  

I found this forum while trying to find info on understanding our new dog. Grady is an 8 mo old GSP neutered male and we've had him almost three months. I got him for my husband's father's day gift. I read these articles when I'm at my wits end with him. Like today. Today, he ate the gas grill, hoses, ignition wires...gone. My brand new grill that I've cooked on 3 times...He also ate EVERY bloom of my  hibiscus...gone. His bed...gone...my feeding buckets, same. All this in just this week. Right now I hate him. Later this evening when he run to me with his ears mussed and his stump wagging wanting his ball thrown, I'll think he's a cutie pie. BUT, again...I'm in the negative zone and I"m ready to call his breeder and tell her to pick him up. He is THE most destructive dog I've ever owned and we've had several.  Porch steps, picnic benches, log edges of our home all bear his mark. He learned his underground fence system in one afternoon..smart boy. He has a full 2 acres to run on.  He won't potty train..stupid dog. He has to live outside which is not what I wanted. He's learned several voice and hand commands quickly..smart dog. He won't stop chasing my cats..stupid dog. He body slams himself off my screens and windows... I could go on... but you've all read it before.

He eats quality food, gets plenty of excercise and attention. We get him extra large bones which pacifiy him greatly but not enough to keep him from destroying something. Now here's the kicker...he's only bad from 6:00 a.m. til about 11:00 a.m. Then he's wonderful. I WORK at home and can't pay full attention to him during those hours. He takes a nap (crated) from 1 pm. to 4 and then is bouncy (in a fun way) the rest of the evening outside. If he is crated prior to 1, he whines like crazy...he is crated around 10 p.m til 6 a.m inside and sleeps without problem.

Any suggestions on what to do with him in the morning hours??? No such thing as doggie day care here...I'm in the middle of the boondocks :)

Thanks for any input, Micayla

mdawv1User is Offline


Posts:8


08/16/2008 1:55 PM  
Forgot to mention my other issue...Another reason I've considered sending him back to the breeder......since he can't stay inside all the time because he won't housebreak or leave my cats alone, he'll be spending the winter months outside. How do they do with such a short coat? We're in WV so it gets COLD. He has an igloo on the porch. Can't give him a warming mat or bed..because he'll eat it. He's shredded two beds, one blanket and a few towels I've tried to give him thinking he'd like something soft to lay on....silly me...LOL
M.
MorrisonUser is Offline
Twin Cities, MN
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08/16/2008 1:59 PM  

Sounds like he is so smart that he gets bored and then does "stupid" stuff.

When he is in the yard, on his own, does he run or does he check out the perimeter and just hang out? I discovered, with my young GSP, that I had to go out with him for him to get his excersise properly. Then I had to create puzzles for him to solve - stuffed frozen kongs, hidden items to find on command etc.

Chewing a lot of stuff usually indicates boredom or pent up energy, or frustration. He may be frustrated that he isn't with you since GSPs are so pack oriented. I would work on his housetraining first so that he can spend more time with you.

I hope this helps - I know that my GSP puppy reduced me to tears a few times. It does get better!

 

Edited to add - IMO I don't think that GSPs should be outdoor dogs at all.  If he can't be trained to be in the house with his family he needs a different environment.  Talk to the breeder and get their advice, don't wait for winter.


mdawv1User is Offline


Posts:8


08/16/2008 2:19 PM  
I don't know what else to do to housebreak him. I've trained several dogs...this one is my only failure. Started with the crate...great. Went to a small space...baby gated off most of my house...which didn't last long..he plowed thru them. However, next I tied him of TO ME...great. with the exception that I didn't care for having a 70 pound cojoined dog attached to me. Turned him loose in the downstairs...limited area..no good. He does his smelly business every time I turn my back even if we were just outside and it's been hours since breakfast. He learned that upstairs is off limits quickly...at least that gave the cats a retreat. I don't know what else to do. I can't keep him tied off to me forever...2 months of working with a dog his age SHOULD have been plenty. ?? M.
SomerUser is Offline
Houston, TX
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08/16/2008 2:29 PM  
How are you exercising him and giving him attention?

Since you got him at 5 months, how was he kept previously? Inside/outside? In a kennel or crate?

If he is eating all your stuff outdoors then he is probably bored (since he is so young it probably doesn't take much for him to get bored). Most dogs need a job and if you don't give them one then they will create their own.
carlower1User is Offline
Kansas
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Posts:1253


08/16/2008 2:40 PM  
I also work from home and had similar problems. Like you it was driving me batty, I learned that during the time I am at my desk, if he was in his kennel next to my desk then we had no problem. I would take him for a walk/eat before then he would kennel up for his morning nap then we would "play" during lunch break. If I tried to send him outside, or confine him to the laundry room during that time he would tear things apart. usually I would have a quiet dog toy in there with him. If the kennel was right next to my chair with the side door open towards my chair he could poke his head out when he needed to get a pat or some sort of reassurance.
mdawv1User is Offline


Posts:8


08/16/2008 2:52 PM  
Ok here is Grady's morning....my husband puts him out at 5:30 or so...packs his lunch and does his morning things...throws the toys for the dog until he has to leave at 6:30. I don't know what the dog does after that but I've seen him come out of his igloo. Anyway as soon as he hears my feet hit the bottom step in the living room is when he starts his craziness. Please understand LOL I NEED coffee before I deal with dogs, cats, livestock etc.* But while I'm doing that, he begins the pacing from dining room window to door of the back porch. This doesn't stop. I feed everyone at 8:00 every day. I make him sit and wait so I can set his food down without being knocked over. He eats and then starts running around the house in complete circles. He will occasionally lay on the porch for brief periods but then resumes chasing his own toys (of which he has many and all kinds) and getting into touble when I'm not looking. I HAVE to get my work done, I don't have time to stop and play all morning. The problem I guess is that I work from home and he can see me in the house. I find I'm spending more time these days going from window to window to see what he's into instead of getting my work done. It's frustrating...like I said. He can't come in with me and crated AGAIN so he can be "in" is too much time crated (he'd whine a anyway). If I worked away from home...he would be crated all night and then most of the day if no one was home...I dion't know maybe there is no good solution. M.
mdawv1User is Offline


Posts:8


08/16/2008 2:58 PM  
Sorry I forgot to answer Somer's question. He was kept in an indoor/outdoor kennel with his father. The building is basically a row of large kennels under roof....with part "in" and part "out". She keeps her dogs in a converted "dog room" in the house during the winter months. So no housebreaking and very little discipline going on. I had no clue this breed was so rammy...I just fell for that "look"..I love the expression. I should have read up...my husband has admired the breed for years (he worked Brittanys on birds in the past) that's how I ended up with him. Met the gal in my vet office and showed an interest. :) M.
BEANSUser is Offline
Washington state
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08/16/2008 3:16 PM  

What level of training does he have ? Like someone mentioned earlier, they NEED a job...maybe rather than all Play time, he could do some training exercises...discipline is a good thing. BEAN really seems to be more well behaved when I work her !. Even her play time has elements of discipline thrown in..and sometimes we do JUST ALL OUT PLAY...maybe try to vary the routine if possible...good luck

Renee'


Renee'
mdawv1User is Offline


Posts:8


08/16/2008 3:31 PM  
He knows sit, down, leave it, over there, whoa or wait, fence (to him means boundry), go, ok and come most all by voice and some by hand. Stay is not in his vocabulary no matter how much we've tried. We have him go thru the commands while we play. Sit and wait until the ok is given to "go" or hide the toy and work him with "over there" to find it....that's about my limit.

M.
lugmastroUser is Offline
Eastern NC
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Posts:83


08/16/2008 3:35 PM  
Routine is key. When I go away for awhile and then come back Charlie knows the routine changes alot. He knows I am going to get up let them out take a shower and feed them, after they eat I go to work. He'll stare at his food so I won't leave. Shorthairs know the routine and when they try to beat it to get more attention you have to remain consistant and extremely firm. I would suggest buying the book Gun Dog whether you are going to hunt him or not it is the best book I have ever come in contact with. I have trained all my dogs out of that book and it makes it very simple. If you crate him and he cries let him cry. He knows that you are going to break and let him out. You have to out last him or he will own you not the other way around. Stay positive and consistantly firm and it will all work out.

Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
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Posts:7835


08/16/2008 6:56 PM  

Sounds to me like the dog is in control after dad leaves for work.  That needs to change.  You need to take charge, establish a routine and be consistent and firm.  He will catch on.  Dogs love routines once established.  Someone else mentioned this, but I would get him potty trained first.  You are just going to have to be persistent with him on the potty training.  Also, when you clean up after him be sure you use something that kills the smell or they will go back to the same area and do their business there again and again.  If you catch him in the act I would say No is a startling voice to get his attention and make him pause, then get him outside fast.  Any time he does his business outside praise and give him a treat immediately.  He will soon catch on. It will take longer though to housebreak him as he is older, but it is doable. If he has done his business inside and you didn't catch him in the act, then take him outside and go back in and clean up.  Scolding at this point does no good as the dog has no clue why you are fusing at him.

The other thing that might be happening is he may be misbehaving to get attention.  Remember any attention is better than no attention.  You are already loosing time on the job by trying to figure out what he is up to, so work some breaks into the routine and either have play time or training time.  It doesn't have to be long periods, 5 or 10 minutes will work. If he misbehaves, do not respond to the bad behaviour.  Just go and get him, no reaction beyond a firm no.  Distract him and get him doing something ok, and then give him praise for a behaviour you are ok with. That let's him know what makes you happy.

Finally work on your authority with him.  If you tell him to do something you only say it once, then you go make him do it.  Any time you give him a treat, make it a reward for something he has done right. If you aren't already, take over his feeding, but make him work for dinner.  I have my kids sit until I release them to eat.

You didn't say what he did to the flowers and such, but my furkids own my backyard except for two flower beds.  I have a fence barrier (short 2.5 foot fence just as a reminder) around those areas and have taught them to stay out.  Most of the time they do unless they are after a critter, then all bets are off.  The way I look at it is I love my furkids more than the flowers.  I can always plant more flowers.

Finally, GSPs are wonderful pets and are really unhappy when they can't be with their people. They are made to cuddle on the couch or bed on long cold nights or rainy days, not be outside because we fail in our training.  They are trainable with patience and perserverance and positive reinforcement.

There are also a ton of good books out there for training a dog and working with dogs that have problems.  Get a few of them and read them.  They will give you additional ideas on how to deal with your dog.

Good luck and hang in there, be firm, but most of all be consistent.


Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
mdawv1User is Offline


Posts:8


08/16/2008 7:28 PM  
Thanks for all of the ideas...it's been an awful evening...and DADDY was home. Working on some outside cleaning...he left the garage for five minutes. Grady opened a whole row of bags of woodburning pellets and chewed up several things of my husbands. Now I get to say...oh, he's just a puppy, wait til he eats the leather off your Harley! LOL
No, seriously this is out of hand. I may send him to a trainer or just look into hiring one..I'll have to see what's available in my area.

But thanks for the discussion. M.
MydogiscrazyUser is Offline
Chapel Hill NC
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08/16/2008 10:12 PM  
where in WV? i know a great one!
carlower1User is Offline
Kansas
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Posts:1253


08/16/2008 10:47 PM  
Everyone has given you great advice so far but there is one thing I have not seen mentioned. At 8 months old, you have the adult size equivalent of a human 2 year old. Right now every rule, guideline, wooden chair and leather strap has to be challenged, tasted and possibly defeated. One of the things that helped me (and yes I know this sounds weird) were parenting books on baby proofing houses and dealing with toddlers. When all the best dog training advice didn't work, then I resorted to what I did with my toddlers when they were growing up. We also put him into a training class during this time as well so he had a job to work on, along with homework. By the time we got out of the "terrible 2's" stage, everyone was doing a lot better. He is still rambunctious but there are now rules that he listens to most of the time. Just realize that THIS WILL PASS!!! You need patience and to set aside time to give him a schedule and some positive/constructive attention. (as for exercise have you thought about hooking him up to a treadmill in the morning and turning it to a comfortable speed for him to "run"?)

Carrie
pixie beeUser is Offline

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Posts:4448


08/17/2008 5:42 AM  
I feel for you. But this will pass.
Quick questions, how many times do you have to give a command before it is obeyed? and how long is the command obeyed before the dog decides to break it and you have to re-command the dog, or do you just let him break the command and not re-command him?
Chewing will last up until about 2 years old, with a big drop about 1 1/2 years old. Dogs don't house break for 2 reasons. He either has a health issue or you are not being consistent. When he goes in the house what is his punishment? ANd is he caught in the act?

Francine


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
Ace1cappuccinoUser is Offline
Carp Lake, Michigan
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Posts:1618


08/17/2008 6:26 PM  
I went through mostly the same thing with my male Hunter. My wife hated him and I really regretted getting him. After he got to about 2 years old he totally transformed into my good boy. I couldn't ask for a better male. I think also your boy must need more exercise too. Maybe take him for a run or longer play time. He would probably need a couple hours to burn off the high energy! Good luck!

Cornell's GSP'S- Mocha cappuccino, Lili Belle Lotte, Sir Leopold Vom Hunter 1, Lil Miss Lotte Doddi, Ace Hunter Twisted Mister(GSP'S) PhotobucketPhotobucket
Browndog's MomUser is Offline


Posts:1


08/17/2008 7:09 PM  

Your post could have been mine, 5 years ago.  Browning mangled at least 2 pair of eyeglasses, he ate my hubands $2300 hearing aid, he chewed shoes.  He chased my cats.  He tore up the newspaper in the yard every morning.  He tore up at least 2 UPS deliveries, including my husband's birthday present.  He ate the cat's food.  He "graduated" at the bottom of his puppy training class -- he had no interest in learning, he just wanted to romp with the other dogs.  He chewed the gear shift in my car.

I wanted to get rid of him and I was so sorry we got him.  Then oneday I met the woman who runs the mid-Atlantic GSP rescue.  She told me that she had to crate her dog until after his 3rd birthday.  She said that something would happen after his third birthday and he'd totally calm down.  And that's what happened.  He got better gradually, and sometime around his 3rd birthday he became the best dog ever.  Oh, he still chases my cats, and will still eat the catfood.  But he has traveled everywhere with us and is always a gentleman.  He loves to ride in the car.  And somehow, he actually does those things that he refused to do in puppy class. 

So try to hang in there.  They are high energy dogs.  They are also extremely intelligent and great companions.  I just adopted a coonhound puppy and am going through again much of what you are going through.  And Browning is just great with the puppy. 

 

carlower1User is Offline
Kansas
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Posts:1253


08/17/2008 8:31 PM  
HOLY COW Brown, and I thought my beast was bad!

Wachter has chewed through 2 computer power cords, pulled a laptop off a table and broken it, 3 bluetooth earpieces, the cross-rung to my wooden office chair, torn apart every stuffed animal he has gotten ahold of and presented my ex, ex mil and my preacher with a chewed up "bob" (don't ask, but it was rather embarrassing). He has gone through the electrical lines (see a pattern here) of the air conditioner, water heater TV DVD player 3 lamps, 2 plastic crates, all the books off the bottom two shelves on my bookshelf AND the wooden shelves themselves. Ripped the screen door down on the storm door to let himself back in the house.

On the upside he has chased off someone trying to break in my house (while we were here) twice. Did his first major event last night and did amazing! let kids crawl all over him, pet him, pull his ears and feed him snacks. Not a single tooth scratch!!!! Wachter is not even a year old yet, and I am learning to keep him occupied, although I will admit to being a bit nervous for these next few weeks, I took a new project which will have him confined for longer than usual.

Carrie
MarieUser is Offline
Wisconsin
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08/17/2008 10:01 PM  

We spend every morning after our walk with 45 minute ball toss and on my nights off 2 hours of outside doggy play.  Plus in the house we have rummage buckets filled with Rocky toys when he becomes active and bored, like a 2 year old and our Rocky is 6


Marie and Rocky, a tall, high energy GSP
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab18/Annette_Merryfield/100_0285.jpg?t=1287205231
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