Hello,

I'm new to the forum and will be posting pics of our 10 week old GSP shortly.  If you have recommendations for the best way to do pictures/attachments please let me know. 

I have friends with champion Labs in Agility that swear by raw feeding, even from a young age.  However at our first Vet visit last week, they cautioned not to because of calcium/phosphorous ratios that can be out of whack.  The vet is not a typical "my way or the highway" type, she is open minded about raw but stated it's best started after 1 year.  I'd like this group's thought's on the subject. 

Before you ask, my username is my old race car number, it makes no sense here but does on the automotive msg boards I frequent!

Thanks,

Eric

I don't feed raw because it is very hard to get the right amount of nutrients/vitamins/minerals/etc these dogs need, and there are so many good choices for good dog foods on the market.  I use a combination of Wellness canned (lamb and venison), and Evo beef for large breeds.  I feed twice a day ((dry only in the morning and a mix of dry and canned in the evening).  This is a diet for adult dogs though, so wouldn't be right for a puppy.  My dogs are 3 and 4 years old.  I will be getting a puppy in a couple of months and am looking at feeding the Innova (makers of Evo) puppy food.  Although I haven't totally decided.  Allot will depend on what my breeder is feeding.  It is usually a good idea to stick with what the breeder feeds, at least until the little one is adjusted.  Then you have to do the switch gradually. Do some reading and compare the different brands.  I am sure others from this board will weigh in on what they feed as well.  Good luck.

Unowho:  I'm curious by what you mean by "modified" raw diet

TX Belle:  My guy was on Iams when I got him home.  I switched him to raw (Steve's) for a week before the vet appt.  A bit rough for the first day but he was fine from then on out.  He is now on Innova's large breed puppy and he hasn't had a firm poop in 1.5 weeks!  This is what is swaying me back to raw. 

So he was on Iams with the breeder for several weeks, then when you got him you switched him ro the raw diet?  How long did you have him on the raw diet?  I am guessing just a few days?  Then you switched to Innova puppy.  Did the vet recommend the switch to Innova?  Did your pup have any problems with Iams (what prompted the switch from Iams to raw)?  All the switching is hard on a dog, especially a puppy, and will result in a soupy poop. Also, is your pup getting any other treats? Table scraps?

So, I would recommend you go back and mix the Iams with the Innova for a while and gradually change to the Innova (or just go back to the Iams if he wasn't having problems with it).  I would also cut out any other treats until you get the problem resolved.  Is your dog losing weight?  Is he still drinking plenty of water?  If he has lost weight or has limited his water intact, you need to get him back to the vet.  A puppy with bad diarrhea can get dehydrated quickly and it can threaten their life.

They still have kibble in their bowls to munch on whenever thay want. I have always done "free feed" for my dogs & have been lucky to never have a greedy gobbler who eats everything in sight. Mine eat when they are hungry and won't gorge themselves on kibble (they'd stuff themselves to bursting on people food, though!). 

Then, for breakfast they get an egg and some plain full fat yogurt, sometimes with a chicken thigh, depending on if they have been burning calories and running the pounds off too fast. Layla especially has a tendency to do that if I don't keep a cloe eye on her weight.

Daniel eats his egg shell and all, but Layla won't even touch the egg unless it is mixed with something (hence the yogurt). For dinner they get some sort of raw meat, usually chicken because I rarely have money in the budget to buy more than chicken for myself!

I was worried about feeding them chicken with bones, but everyone I talked to who feeds their dogs the raw diet said it is only cooked bones, or bones from large animals such as cows, that can be brittle and dangerous.

I feed both my dogs innova.  Jackson had loose stools as a young pup from vacinations and switching food (even though we did it gradually)  Once he was on Innova we were able to switch from innova puppy- large adult breed with no issue. On innova I have noticed my dog have less waste in a good way   I have not heard much about raw feeding, but we do still give jackson some raw food treats... like veggies and eggs!

Hmm are you a DVM or have a PHD in animal science?  Sounds like you make yourself feel better about feeding kibble by telling yourself that. 

As a postscript, our guy had a virus from eating too much goose crap.  We'll get him regular and then revisit this discussion. 

Glad to hear you got to the bottom of the problem, and hope your furkid is feeling better.  As far as food, a good healthy diet that works well for the high energy dog you've got is what matters. Post some more pictures, your pup is a cutie.

we don't feed raw* but we do make our own food for the dogs (and cat..he doesn't mind). beef hearts, lean ground beef, liver, or turkey are our favourites right now. we boil the meat and add boiled vegetables (sweet potatoes, kale, turnips, spinach, carrots, celery, & butternut squash). we mix these together and add dry cereal (usually Cheerios and Rice Krispies but had some wonderful results with Bran Flakes this past week). Every other day we add plain yogurt so they can get some calcium, too. My dogs eat a more balanced diet than I do.

Our vet knows of our feeding style and is fully behind it. In fact, the carrots made for a vet recognized improvement in our 11 year old Border Collie's vision.

*my vegan wife doesn't like me giving them raw beef heart but I do it as a treat when we are preparing their food.

Thanks everyone.  I have to agree with both of the posts above, I think the idea is just to feed better, and raw is one method of doing so.  At least we all agree dog chow is probably not the best answer. 

No but my degree is in Biology/wildlife science and very heavy in upper level biologies as well as coursework in feeds and feeding and animal nutrition. 

My family has owned GSP's since 69 and I myself have raised over 200 of them to two years of age over the last twenty years.  I read voraciously on the subject and since my own personal dogs typically hunt 140 plus days a year and my trial dogs are in training, hunting, and trialing, nine months a year I have a pretty good understanding of canine nutrition particularly when it comes to performance dogs.

Canine nutrition is much more complicated than most people think.  It takes a tremendous amount of experience and work to put together a quality and well balanced diet and to get the ash content, vitamins, minerals and ammino acids right is not something one can do willy nilly.

The "major" producers of dog food in this country such as Diamond, Purina/Pro Plan, PMI, and Iam's/Euk have spent billions of dollars (collectively) learning how to put the best quality kibble possible for a reasonable price together.  In doing so they have made it a whole lot easier on us and have greatly extended the useful/healthy lives of our dogs. CR