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Heidi_GSPUser is Offline
MD, USA

Posts:5


06/01/2008 3:04 PM  
Hello fellow GSP lovers, I have few questions and I appreciate any answers from this forum. Just a brief history about Heidi. I adopted Heidi in 1997 while I was in NYC, she was about 1 yr old back then. So that makes her close to being 12 yr old now. I have been fairly strict with her diet, Nutro Natural Choice Lamb and Rice and switched to their senior formula 2 yrs ago.  I know she is probably on the final leg of her journey with me and I am trying to make it the most enjoyable for us. I have seen a very steep deterioration of her general health in the past 6-7 months. She has lost some of her hearings (she can’t hear door openings and normal calling). And she shows obvious signs of arthritis as she struggles to walk the stairs. I expected some of those but the degree and the speed of which really took me by surprise.
 
Does any fellow GSP owners have any experienced this before, any advice?
 
Can anyone recommend some good web sources for dealing with those issues, diet, activity, etc. 
 
Heidi and I very much appreciate your help. BTW, I have a one year old baby and could jealousy be part of this, even though we made efforts to keep things the same for her.  
singltrakUser is Offline
Las Cruces, NM
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Posts:1149


06/01/2008 4:01 PM  
Hi,

Yes, I have experience with dealing with what I'll call "geriatric" GSPs. I doubt seriously that the baby has any bearing on the situation, first of all. Jealousy, perhaps, not wanting to share "her world" possible. Has she always been an "only child" before? I had one who was an "only" even though surrounded by her older brother, and other assorted relatives. To the day she left this world, almost two years ago, Snowie had little tolerance for puppies or for children and had her own world in which she was the "princess". She was a wonderful therapy dog, and totally devoted to me, but not many others could see past that exterior.

Stairs are hard on old joints and old bones. (as an AARP member myself, I know that only too well). I added a ramp to my deck to help that part out. Aging vision and hearing make things hard to deal with. Tile and slick floors can also be an issue, and with the two older ones, I found myself adapting my life to ease theirs. Many area rugs were bough to keep from sliding and falling, A step stool for getting into and out of the van became a necessary item. I was very fortunate to find a wonderful Veterinarian who was also a member of the American Veterinary Chiropractic Association and who did a lot of holistic medicine. (You can google AVCA for a locator by state and country). She worked extensively with both allopathic medicine as well as chiropractic and acupuncture with both Snowie and Hero, and they were all the better for it. My regular vet, who had been a non-believer in holistic meds and practices, was convinced and said to me, "you know, the animals don't KNOW they are supposed to feel better like people do, but you can tell by how they act when they leave the clinic that they do". It was so true.
That would be the first thing I'd hunt up, if I were you.

Consider that this dog is the equivalent of an 80 year old grandma, and you will have your answer. You may have finicky eating, incontinence, embarassment on the part of the dog. If you've been around older folks, you'll know that loud noises or unfamiliar things can startle or frighten them,. Older dogs too may react with a growl when they don't mean it and may wind up punished for their behavior. Patience is sometimes hard, specially when we are talking about a loved family member that we know didn't act like a spoiled kid when younger, and you just don't want to see them get older.

Its unfortunately a sad fact of our GSPs lives that they just are not with us long enough. To add insult to injury (if you will), they are often so darned stoic over pain that one doesn't realize something may not be right until one day you look at them and think what is wrong with my dog. Most of the time, its just age.

I could tell you stories, but won't bore you with all that. Please don't hesitate to holler if I can help at all, and do go check out AVCA for helps to make Heidi's last years with you the most pleasurable you can.

Cheers,
Phyllis and the furtribe
www.singltrakshorthairs.net
singltrak@singltrakshorthairs.net

Look to the Past, Breed for the Future
see'n'spotsUser is Offline
north central Florida
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Posts:334


06/01/2008 11:07 PM  
Can we presume a vet has looked into the arthritis & hearing? I would think pregnancy & raising a "one year old baby" would be a dramatic change for any dog you'd spent that much time with. But what are you gonna do? Life goes on. How successful were your "efforts to keep things the same"? Was there a major change in exercise & play time? IMO "jealousy" is mostly projected, I'd expect a net loss of walk/run time, but at the time a "senior GSP" should be slowing down. Some vet arthritis treatments can add years of mobility. Life expectancy probably averages well under 14 & I saw a 16 YO GSP!

When Chip was 'on the final leg of his journey' I modified the few steps he used. I made a gentle ramp out of 2X12's & had to nail down cleats every 12" b/c the wood was slick under his paws. Also added 'patio' blocks to step up thru doorway & went from 1 big step to 2 smaller ones so he could get on the bed w/help. Then picked him up & carried him out. For Chip it was a long journey. His vet initially concluded arthriits in hips, but later discovered Ehrlichia. My other dogs passed quickly & decisively when it was their time.

By now you know what Heidi likes-do a lot of those things you can. Our spotted friends are like meteors. They burn intensely bright, but are gone all too soon.
MarieUser is Offline
Wisconsin
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Posts:2721


06/01/2008 11:40 PM  
In addtion, you could ask your Vet to put Heidi on Dermax a great arthritic drug for dogs!!! Puritans Pride carries a great Joint Maintenance for dogs, ingredients include : glucosamine HCL, Manganese Shark cartlage Omega 3-fatty acids vit A, E and B-12. I had my Chese/ Lab, Snickers on those 2 drugs her last 3 years of her life and it made a dramatic difference in her. Also I ordered her a dog ramp from Dr. Foster and Smiths. ( my friend and neighbor is using the ramp for her 13 year old Saluki now) I just now started Rocky on Joint Maintenance at 6 years old. I can slightly see Rocky after 3 hour GSP runs and jumps being alittle stiff the next day. You can also rub and massage shoulders and hips before you go walking with Heidi. Do walk Heidi every day. Just walking can improve joint mobility in seniors!!! Best Wishes!!!

Marie and Rocky, a tall, high energy GSP
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab18/Annette_Merryfield/100_0285.jpg?t=1287205231
tchrismanUser is Offline
Shapleigh, ME
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Posts:108


06/02/2008 1:57 PM  

Congratulations on raising a healthy dog to 12.  Other folks have given really great advice.  I've seen a lot of dogs who seem to "run off a cliff" health-wise.  It's difficult to watch a dog so very healthy become old really fast.

Keeping the dog as active as she can be is important.  The right drugs can make all the difference.  I thought my Colt might retire at 8, then I met my wife and she put him on an anti-inflammatory and made me put some muscle on him.  Less pain = better work-out.  The extra strength and cardio conditioning helped quite a bit and he will hunt this fall at 10 (the age his father passed).  We've x-rayed his hips and await PennHIP scores, but we know they'll come back with minor dysplasia.  But he runs with pups still and is mentally sharper than two years ago too.

Chiropractic might be helpful in addition to or instead of drugs.  Colt gets adjusted every other week and our Rymadil supply is probably out of date by now.  Colt started jumping on the tailgate again, having took two years off.

I don't know the weight of your girl, but the less weight she has to carry on her achy frame the better.  The light side of ideal is ideal in my book.

Here's something most folks don't know...  A lot of veterinarians, maybe most of them, do not like working with geriatric patients.  Old dogs can't be "saved" from death, so a lot of them just don't like doing it.  Finding a veterinarian who likes geriatric dogs and is willing to work with you (and that means within your budget too) may be as important as anything else.  Hopefully your doctor does enjoy older dogs.

Diet, exercise, pain reduction and love...  It sounds like that's what you've been providing, and it's what she needs.


Marshfield Kennel German Shorthaired Pointers
carlower1User is Offline
Kansas
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Posts:1253


06/02/2008 2:46 PM  
I have a geriatric shih-tzu. the smaller dogs can live to be up to 15 y/o.

One of the things I have discovered that is helping her is a therapeutic massage. I usually go for deep tissue with her as well as mobility "exercises" meaning I have her laying on her back, and move her legs around, stretch them etc... while massaging her muscles. After we do a session she acts like a puppy, which unfortunately relapses everything.
Heidi_GSPUser is Offline
MD, USA

Posts:5


06/03/2008 1:35 PM  
Thanks so much for everyone’s input. Yes, I have taken her for vet visit few times for those issues and got a prescription for “Rymadil”. The loss of hearing is kind of expected. I am a bit worried about the side effects on her and damage to the liver. I know it’s going to be a balancing act between side effects and quality of life for Heidi. So we just did another blood test and the result shows a bit higher than normal level of liver enzymes (which is not good) so I am taking her for a ultrasonic scan to make sure her liver is healthy. If all is well, then I will have to roll the dice and try the Rymadil. I have put her on join supplement for couple of years now but I have no idea if it helped to delay the pain.
I rescued Heidi from Long Island’s North Shore animal league which rescued her from another shelter where she was about to be euthanized. So I never got her exact birth date. But Northshore told me she was about 1 yr old and I adopted her in Sep of 1997 so I just put her birthday as Sep of 1996. The first couple of years must be rough for her, since I lived in a one room apartment in NYC. But I moved out of the city and she got progressively more room to play.  We adjusted to each other very well; I don’t hunt so she never seen any hunting. She did catch few (young) birds on her own.
It’s very hard to watch Heidi’s health take a sudden turn. Even last thanksgiving I was proudly telling people that Heidi is11 and most ppl won’t believe how good shape she is and barely 6 mo later, she is struggling to climbing stairs, long walks and can’t hear well. I will post back after the scan if anyone cares to follow. Again, very much appreciate your supports and help.
singltrakUser is Offline
Las Cruces, NM
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Posts:1149


06/03/2008 2:02 PM  
I just don't like Rimadyl on a continued basis. It is fine for occasional pain relief (field injuries, etc) but way hard on body systems. I have always felt that it definitely contributed to the early loss of my first GSP, Roper, who left this world at not quite 10, with multiple osteomyelitis things. Deramaxx is supposed to be similar, but less toxic to liver and kidney function and I know many swear by both. If I can go the holistic way, rather than by a chemical means, to alleviate signs of aging in my "kids" then I will always do that first.

Please keep us informed as to what's happening with Heidi, and I will keep her (and you) in my best thoughts.

Phyllis and the Singltrak Furtribe
www.singltrakshorthairs.net

Look to the Past, Breed for the Future
wgspr rescueUser is Offline
Milwaukee, WI
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Posts:630


06/03/2008 2:59 PM  

Our Maggie, who is liver/white english pointer, was our first adopted rescue dog, back in 1999.  Rescue did not know how old she was, maybe 2? 4?  She's had her share of injuries over the years, creating further arthritis for her. She has been on Rimadyl for many years now; 100 mg, 1/2 in AM, 1/2 a pill PM.  She is on glucosamine suppliments twice daily, and bladder control pills for several years. She has been loosing her hearing for a couple years now, so I try to keep it quiet at my house for her, cuz even tags jingling from another dog makes her grumpy, and I see her steer clear, so she is not plowed over.  She can barely get up anymore, and cannot jump up on anything but the couch, and I pay close attention, cuz sometimes she will miss.  I have to help her up the four back stairs cuz her back end is junk.  We discovered she had hip dysplacia a couple years ago when she blew her knee out.  We got lucky she had enough muscle tone to hold her hips in their sockets all these years, but she's got two big bumps on her back where her hip bones are now.  She pulls herself up now days.  Once she's up, she can teeter around, but is afraid of shadows on my wood floors, cuz she knows they are slippery, so I have rug runners all over so Maggie has more traction. If she makes it down my basement steps during the day, she cannot make it back up on her own, without that butt boost.  We did have her knee fixed, but it will never be the same. She cannot sit straight anymore.  To add to matters, she had two grand mall seizures in Dec or Jan, so now, to play it safe, she's on phenolbarbital twice daily.  She also gets skin absesses, which can appear outta nowhere fast. For instance my ex had her this past weekend, I sent her with him fine...she came back with a really swollen front paw, that has drainy absesses between her toes, so I keep antibiotics around for when that happens.  She has had allergies ever since we got her, so I keep benedryl around for those days.  We also had her anal glands removed a year ago, cuz those kept absessing.  So now, she will periodically fart out a hunk where she goes, or in her sleep.  URGH!  She has an eyelash on one eye, that curls into her eye!  I have to pay attention for that sucka, or she gets eye infections.  I just had to pull the thing out yesterday, cuz he returned her with a green gooey eye.  She has a big "wrist" on her right front paw from an old hunt injury, where she probably stuck her paw into a hole and pulled it out, distending that "wrist" and one of her toes causing her arthritis.  She is my episode child.  Every month it's one thing or another!  We decided if that other knee or her hips finally go, that's all she wrote for Maggiemum. So far, so good.  But it's very hard watching her in this final stage.  She now has what we think is geriatric bronchitis, always coughing.... And enlarged liver, making her belly appear very big.  I'm keeping her on Rimadyl anyhow, or she could never get up anymore.  I'm doing my best to enjoy whatever time we have left with Maggie now.   She still rules the roost at my house, and will still get up and fling a toy periodically.  She has been a money pit!  We just take it easy with Maggie now, while we watch and wait for her signal.  I know what you are going thru all too well.  Take care, keep us posted.         


Lisa C. Rossman
WI GSP Rescue, Inc (wgspr.com)
"Until there are none, rescue just one!"
Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
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Posts:7854


06/03/2008 3:33 PM  

I agree with Phyllis about natural remedies where possible.  I don't use Rimadyl unless I have to.  I tend to go with Deramax.  It seems to work better, my vet (who I trust) recommends it over Rimadyl.  I have a good friend who rescues horses and she has a very old horse who has all kinds of arthritis and inflamation problems.  She uses a juice that's packed full of antioxidents and it really helps the inflammation in her horse.  The juice is called Xango juice and was recommended by a vet in Central Texas who uses natural remedies where possible.  My friend swears it works and has extended the life of her horse who has been at deaths door twice.  Good luck and keep us posted.


Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
Heidi_GSPUser is Offline
MD, USA

Posts:5


06/11/2008 1:20 PM  
I am happy to report back that the doctor told me after he performed unltransonic scan that Heidi appears to be "beautiful inside and outside". he said the liver and other organs appear to be in good shape. So I am relieved on that front. I also did some research on the web regarding pain medication. Not sure if you guys are aware of the folloiwng websites: I found info there regarding many issues we discussed here and want to share with you....
http://community.dog.com/forums/p/29891/394998.aspx and http://www.dogaware.com/

from reading above websites, I have purchased some Knox Nutrajoint (human grade joint supplement) to give to Heidi, along with Fishoil &Vatamin E. I also tracked down a Vet thru VACA(thanks to your info) and made an appointment for Heidi and see if alternative treatment will be effective. I will leave ramdyl as the last resort, hopefully, couple years away...
mitUser is Offline
Harleysville, PA
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Posts:599


06/11/2008 2:52 PM  
that's wonderful news!
unowhoandwhyUser is Offline
Middleofnowhere, NH
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Posts:1805


06/11/2008 3:02 PM  
That is wonderful!

Daniel Yankee Flyer - 8/2002
Lady Layla - 1/2006
Heidi_GSPUser is Offline
MD, USA

Posts:5


04/16/2012 1:45 PM  
I don't post here often but just want to revive this old thread and give a recent update on Heidi to those who care to read. She made it to 15.5 year old, tough girl.
RIP Heidi, Sept 1996 to April 15th, 2012

Up till last August, she could still manage the stairs and would enjoy short walk around the block and “bunny hop” home. Her health has deteriorated significantly since then. She is on full strength NSAID medication and 3 other pain meds, ulcer medicine to counter NSAID’s effect on stomach, alternative pain management like acupuncture and chiropractic treatment, monthly Adequan shots (pricy but really helped for the past 6 mo) but now I start to see the diminishing effect. She limps around and but can still manage to get up on her own and likes her food and treats. Her rear legs are getting weaker and she falls often and she has lost weights from her usual 60lbs slowly to 45lbs now. Her blood work and x-ray are fine and are done often. She can see but probably lost 95% of her hearing.
The killer is that after I come home from my recent 5-day out of town trip, she did not respond at all as I am just a stranger to her. That’s when I realized that she has been suffering many symptoms of dementia. She sleeps a lot during the day and paces a lot, staring at wall, not interacting with family members, increasing amount of accidents in the house….there are times I spent hours cleaning up her mess in the house after a moment of weakness I gave her some nice treats which she had enjoyed before but now her digestive is so sensitive that I dare not deviate from her usual dry/canned food mix. I also realized that she hasn’t really wagged her tail for long time, like few months. When I come home, if she is not sleeping, she will just watch me come in and most of the time she will just lay there in her bed or come take a sniff and walk away unless I hold her and pet her….
She still eats and drinks and enjoys treats and finishes her business outside (most of the time but accidents are more and more); she doesn’t recognize any of us anymore and just wondering and circling in the house; she didn’t care if any of us pet her head….she will just walk away. No tail wagging…It’s very stressful and depressing for me to see her that way. But maybe this is her last parting gift for me…this process creates a cushion/buffer to really make it somewhat detached due to her indifferent behavior.
She went to the vet on Friday (13th) for a checkup so we can get a possible prescription for dementia but she didn’t want to get into the car on that day somehow. She just didn’t want to go according to my wife. After she came back and after a long nap, she wasn’t the same that night. Constantly pacing and panting and can hardly stand up. The next morning, I made arrangement with the Vet to have them come to the house on April 20th but Heidi had other ideas.
I nursed her both Friday and Saturday nights as she constantly want to be outdoors. On Saturday afternoon, she would lay on the lawn and appeared to be peaceful. I carried her back to the house and she would get up and walk/circling around the house again. I knew it then….

So we sat out on our lawn and watched the sun setting quietly. I slept on the floor next to her Saturday night and held her paws; as she slept soundly for couple of hours, I wept silently in the dark. Sunday morning, I fried an egg and some noodles, heat up cheese burger/fries and pizza. She had great appetite though and finished those in short time. I converted the car’s back seat area into a big cushy bed and She enjoyed the ride to the hospital as the morning cool breeze rushed in from the open window. I held her head in my lap, stroke and petted her head and told her that she did good and we will meet again. And she was calm; It was quick and drama free.

Eventhough I have been mentally preparing for this moment for almost a year…the feeling of loss and the physical separation is still tremendously saddening. But I am glad that I was able to help Heidi out this way and that’s what really matted at the end. I want to see it as a great trip we took together but the journey has to end somewhere for now before we can pick it up again at a different place and time.
everbellUser is Offline
Kanata, ON
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Posts:3166


04/16/2012 2:05 PM  
So sorry for you loss. 15.5 is a great age for any dog, and it sounds like you loved her and did everything you could for her. Hugs!

Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures
MarieUser is Offline
Wisconsin
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Posts:2721


04/16/2012 3:30 PM  

Tears are in my eyes as I read your story of Heidi's last days.You provided her comfort care she most needed . My deepest sympathy for you and your family. RIP Heidi.


Marie and Rocky, a tall, high energy GSP
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab18/Annette_Merryfield/100_0285.jpg?t=1287205231
everbellUser is Offline
Kanata, ON
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Posts:3166


04/16/2012 5:21 PM  
BTW -- please don't take any lack of response as people not sharing your grief. A lot of forum regulars are at the GSP national speciality show this week. I'm sure they would offer their sincere condolences as well, since we all love our four-legged babies.

Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures
gharnerUser is Offline
Middletown, PA
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Posts:565


04/16/2012 7:56 PM  
Im so sorry to hear about your loss! Even though you think you've had time to mentally prepare for a situation like this, its hard to prepare for the loss of a member of your family. You did an awesome job taking care of her, and making her life good, especially her senior years. Ill keep you and your family in my thoughts and prayers
smatulewiczUser is Offline
Michigan
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Posts:1197


04/16/2012 9:40 PM  
How beautifully you have written about her last moments, which not only brought tears but shows how much she was loved. Sounds like she had great bliss in her last days... Basking in the yard, eating a feast, and being surrounded by love. So sorry for your loss and grief ;(
Francois P vd WaltUser is Offline
Witbank SA

Posts:6


04/16/2012 9:53 PM  
My old man is now 14 years old ....

He was my hunting buddy for 10 years, he has over the last 3 years gone more and more deaf, winters are worse every year. He is suffering from arthritis and half a pain tablet help for morning aches.Driving in and out the driveway is slow and we have to watch out for him, he doesn't hear the cars no more.

Dont think he will make this winter ....sadly !

Francois vd Walt
www.gsp-bullet.blogspot.com
Kneel before GOD and stand up to any man.
I pity the man that has never been loved by his dog !
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