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Subject: Cesar Millan
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see'n'spotsUser is Offline
north central Florida
MH
MH
Posts:316


05/31/2008 9:44 PM  

Trying hard to enjoy his book.  It was a gift.  Was dubious from the few TV bits I'd seen.  Have gotten through his wind up & am only dubiousER.  Have very low expectations for his pitch.  Is it all Oprah hype & dysfunctional owners?  Anything in Millan's kit & bull's eye for GSPs?  High point have been the footnotes, low point the weak photos that never seem to show what he describes.

I've read scattered GSP stuff from misc sources.  What are some GSP Page members' favorite GSP books, websites & articles?  Have a couple of modest paperbacks on GSP, some general dog books including GSP, some vintage GSP magazine articles & a 60's books from GB that has many photos of champion GSPs.  Also want recommendations for a good dog health/first aid/medical book.  Have a very dated vet book that doesn't even mention Lyme.

SomerUser is Offline
Houston, TX
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MH
Posts:280


05/31/2008 10:11 PM  
I'm not too fond of Cesar Millan, either. I think his methods are way outdated.

I don't have any GSP specific books; but I do have quite a few on dog behavior and clicker training. Some of my favorites are -

The Other End of the Leash by Patricia McConnell
Don't Shoot the Dog by Karen Pryor
Bones Would Rain From the Sky by Suzanne Clothier
Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson

I found them all very interesting and I am just starting to re-read them all. All of the GSP specific books I've seen at the bookstore seem to have the same generic info in them. Stuff that could be easily found online.
Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
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MH
Posts:6748


05/31/2008 10:55 PM  

My non GSP favorite books are:

The Dog's Mind: Understanding Your Dog's Behavior by Dr. Bruce Fogle

Beyond Basic Dog Training by Diane Bauman

And probably the definitve GSP book:

Der Deutsch-Kurzhaar by Georgina Byrne (This one is out of print and hard to find (and if you do it is expensive.).  It was reprinted in paperback a few years ago and that is when I got a copy.  Don't know if you can still get it.)

All are great books with different purposes.

For current vet info I find it more useful to use the internet and visit Cornell Vet School and Texas A&M Vet School for info.  For those of you who might understand, my visiting the A&M site is a big deal since I graduated from UT , but they do have a great vet school.

 


Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

hit-fri DSC_0203 DSC_0006DSC_0044 Fauna BIS Jan 20110001 croppedDSC_0027

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
singltrakUser is Offline
Las Cruces, NM
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MH
Posts:1051


06/01/2008 12:22 AM  
For the most useful vet book (and one I found on eBay and was able to pick up for $38) The Five Minute Veterinary Consult by Larry P. Tilley, et al. A great compilation of practically everything you can think of. It is about three inches thick, but oh, ever so informative. New, runs about $120.

I totally agree that Der Deutsch Kurzhaar is a definitive work. Bob McKowen also did The German Shorthaired Pointer that is now out of print. It is somewhat incorrect in some of the stories he tells, however, if you can get your hands on one you'll definitely have a piece of GSP history.

LOL! Beverly! I have a funny personal story to tell you about Aggies and 'Horns. Don't want to bore the list, so will tell you when I see you at Reliant. Til' then, "hook 'em! " :D

Phyllis and furtribe
new puppy pix coming soon!
www,singltrakshorthairs.net

Look to the Past, Breed for the Future
NavillaUser is Offline
Lawrenceburg, IN
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MH
Posts:959


06/02/2008 4:13 PM  
I heard about Cesaer before Oprah hyped him up.

As someone who did not know a lot about controlling dogs, teaching them, etc, I did find a lot of his techniques helfpul.

What is it that most of you all don't like?

Caryl, Dave, Baby Logan, and Osiris
Lawrenceburg, Indiana
RugergundogUser is Offline
Saginaw Michigan USA
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MH
Posts:395


06/03/2008 8:11 AM  

I think many who criticize Cesar forget that his style is for the complete novice dog handler who is having problems with a behavior issue.

If you read his material and soak it up for what it is; his methods are basics that do work.  We don't get to see the behind the schene stuff of the real problem or difficult dogs that he works with for weeks and weeks to get progress.

As for a good book to learn about dog behavior and people behavior and how it relates when we handle or train.  A book titled,   The other end of the leash"  is fantastic!!!   Anyone can learn a lot from it or if you are experienced with dogs it will refresh your mind on some concepts.

I give it 4 stars and a thumbs up!


Saginaw Michigan
Brittany- Ruger
GSP- Kilian
prairiefireUser is Offline
Western Wisconsin
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MH
Posts:409


06/03/2008 8:16 AM  
I've never read his book, but I do watch the show from time to time. Seems like most of the problems he encounters come from people treating their dogs like four-legged humans. He helps them "think like a dog" and communicate accordingly.
For whatever reason, people seem to love him or hate him. Not sure why...
MegCUser is Offline
Ellensburg, WA
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MH
Posts:988


06/03/2008 10:25 AM  
I've only seen Ceasar in action on TV a couple times, but it seems like:
- his timing is good
- he can 'read' the animals very well
- his communication is clear
- and he's got a lot of what my old horse training mentor called "authority" oozing out of him.
I remember watching some old videos of John Lyons working with horses and he had a similar vibe, as have some of the more successful local guys I've seen work with animals.

Now for the blasphemy: I suspect someone like this could most likely pick ANY method from clicker to Kohler and it would work very well for them.

Megan
+ Dulcie (Lehmschlog's The Right Spot) + Rogan (Lehmschlog's BR Rogan) + Anya (Lehmschlog's Anya O Conchobar)
Intro to harness sport/mushing- start here!
see'n'spotsUser is Offline
north central Florida
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MH
Posts:316


06/03/2008 12:59 PM  

Thanks for all the suggestions.  Allow me to post an example of the "low point the weak photos that never seem to show what he describes". Cesar repeatedly writes about routinely walking his pack of 40 "calm-submissive" dogs, but managed a photo w/fewer than 20, a 2nd photo shows just 6. I'd like to have seen the 40 'difficult dogs' following him like sheep.

I presume Cesar's success is no illusion, however the TV show surely relies on some Smoke & Mirrors. IMO the book is a bit clumsy & torturous to read. Lots of gross generalizations stated as axioms also.

As I've posted before, I prefer seeing Victoria driving up to save the day in her XKE.

RugergundogUser is Offline
Saginaw Michigan USA
MH
MH
Posts:395


06/03/2008 3:20 PM  
What book are you reading? I read the first one......very easy read and quick read.

Saginaw Michigan
Brittany- Ruger
GSP- Kilian
EncinoQuailDogUser is Offline

JH
JH
Posts:20


06/03/2008 3:54 PM  
Looks like Der Deutsche Kurzhaar by Georgia Byrne is still available. Google search brought this up.


http://facks.org/?bk=gspbook

see'n'spotsUser is Offline
north central Florida
MH
MH
Posts:316


06/03/2008 7:00 PM  
'Cesar's Way'. Sorry, was not aware there was more than 1.

Rugergundog wrote: "What book are you reading? I read the first one......very easy read and quick read."

"IMO the book is a bit clumsy & torturous to read" which doesn't mean it couldn't also be "easy" & "quick". Many "clumsy" things are very "easy" just as some "torturous" things are "quick". For Cesar English is admittedly a 2nd language & he is no great author in his native language. This contributes to the book being "clumsy". His heavily repeated platitudes become "torturous". I was seeking a message, but lack the production team to duplicate his results. Perhaps I just react poorly to hype?
anna1001User is Offline
NC
SH
SH
Posts:49


06/04/2008 12:21 PM  

My opinion is that for the 90% of the country who gives their dog no training, he's excellent.  His principles are the same over and over again, but there are clearly still plenty of people that need it.  the part I like most is that in the majority of cases with 'good' dogs (ie, not the ones with violent, aggressive problems) he reads the people, more than the dogs.  he's obviously learned most of this by observing dogs, as a lot of his terminology is a bit self-created.  He's very good about not letting himself get distracted or distressed by either the people or the dogs (even when you can tell he's not happy).

I haven't read any of his books, however my friend promised to lend me her copy once she's finished with it.  Like anything else, once something is recommended, it's important to make your own decision on how reliable the information is and whether it applies to your situation.

Thanks for the suggestions on other training books.  Must have a look.

see'n'spotsUser is Offline
north central Florida
MH
MH
Posts:316


06/04/2008 4:50 PM  
anna1001, Thanks for the grounding. I'd like to think GSP owners, at least the GSP Page membership, are in the 10%, but know even that's obviously unrealistic. Having grown up rural on a small old fashioned farm, I had many of the same experiences Cesar had. I'm not unfamiliar w/TV Magic either. However I can appreciate how very many people commit to raising a dog w/o a clue, as if it were another electronic gadget you can switch off & ignore. Experiences I've had w/my own family, friends, acquaintances & Dog Parkers is not representative of the "90% of the country who gives their dog no training". I hadn't thought about Cesar's book being geared for teens & the youth theme on NG shows. Oprah peddling ethical treatment of dogs is a good thing & I've been a NG member since '57. My perspective is somewhat opposite of yours, I've read his book, but only seen scattered bits of 'Dog Whisperer'. Victoria on AP is much easier on the eyes & ears.
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