smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1188
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| 02/26/2013 11:07 AM |
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I realize if you are beating her to the accidents you are inadvertently waking her, but the thing is if she whine after you can ignore it better knowing her bladder is empty. Accidents in the crate need to stop happening or she is only learning it's tolerable and doable...and the only way right now to stop them is to beat her to them. So you can either not sleep AND clean up a crate in the morning AND she will continue to learn that whining gets her out (if you're responding at the time of the whine to take her out to potty). Or, you can not sleep but be actively correcting things while losing some sleep. In terms of basics, also limit her free space when out of crate to a smaller area where she can be monitored fully so you can see any accidents about the happen, and stop them right away and get her outside. If you make another change, if it were me it wouldn't be the crate to another room, it would be attempting to do away with the crate...but I wouldn't until you correct potty habits during the day...the night accidents I think we are all convinced are anxiety. Mine was opposite...fine in it at night (to this day she still sometimes likes her own space while she sleeps), but anxious and frustrated in it at night.
How is the eating? Going better? |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1188
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| 02/26/2013 11:09 AM |
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| Bored and frustrated during the day, I mean. I can't edit posts on my phone ;( |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7835
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| 02/26/2013 2:28 PM |
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| I actually am not convinced this is anxiety. In reality GSPs are no more prone to anxiety than other breeds and this puppy sounds pretty normal to me. I think it more likely that she has learned this behavior and habit and now needs to be retrained. I don't disagree with how to retrain, but would not get too worried about the anxiety just yet. Shorthairs are very smart and learn very quickly how to work their owners. Consistency is typically the key and it sounds like the night routine is less than consistent in this case, and now the puppy isn't too worried about peeing in the crate or sleeping in it. I would even though I don't think this is anxiety still do the routine than smatulewicz is suggesting. The puppy needs to be retrained to understand what the appropriate behavior is with regard to peeing. I also would not be surprised if she hasn't pee some in other places in the house and the owner is not necessarily aware of it. So confining her to a small space during the day is also an excellent idea. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1188
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| 02/26/2013 2:50 PM |
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| I should say I also agree in the sense that I think I am using frustration and anxiety as one in the same, but the main problem seems to be learned habit of whining on which you want to retrain the mindset. She is waking and had learned instead of going back to sleep... She whines, works herself up because she wants to be out, a I think that is what causes the accident. If you know her bladder is empty you can ignore it, and help retrain her mindset |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7835
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gadawgsfan
SH
Posts:55
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| 02/28/2013 10:21 AM |
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I love this site and the people here are amazing in trying to help everybody.
if i would not get fired from my job i could read on here all day.
After listening and reading alot i have learned a tremendous amount here,and i am thankful for everyone's assistance. a few things
extremely rare we have an accident in the house,since all this started its been 2 accidents, she is confined to where we are in the house and playing,she is never alone to roam inside,our carpet shows every spec even the one time it dried it is very visible,
no problems going into and staying in the crate until released,not sure how she is during the day,we are not there,i did put her in the crate yesterday and stayed outside in the garage and listened for her for over 2 hours not a peep out of her open the crate no pee and she was wide awake when i went in to get her.
i can by all means start over in potty training,i would rather be sleepy than have to clean pee and wash every day,i have been getting up with her every night to let her out before she starts crying, no lights,no talking,no petting straight out and straight back into the crate,also no water after 7:00 pm and go out before bed to pee. she does pee while we are gone for the day,my daughter takes her out before school at 8:00 am and lets her out when she gets home at 3:30,she just will not hold it for 7 hours.
i am wondering if the waking up during the night could be from not enough exersise,maybe she needs more than we are doing now,which is fine also.
my wife brought to my attention last night and i forgot all about it for some reason, i work rotating shifts day shift is 6:30am to 5:00 pm, night shift is 2:30 pm to 1:00 am,so during the start of potty training she would let her out before bed,then when i got home at 1:30 am i would let her out and back in the crate,so i am wondering if that started something,i am going to night shift next week the shifts run 3 months at a time.
that thought may change things |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1188
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| 02/28/2013 9:03 PM |
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I think you may be right about exercise. Mine crashes as hard as she goes when the time comes. The days that her activity is less, I have noticed her to readjust (which typically wakes me as a light sleeper) several times in the night (she is still sleeping...just not soundly and contently). This popped up on my newsfeed today. I didn't have time to read it all when I came across it, but thought I'd pass it along anyway: https://dogtread.com/dog-behavior-2/lack-of-exercise-bad-behavior/
I think you're amazing for sticking in there. I can suggest things all day long, but ultimately Bella was an absurdly easy puppy (I can credit us for working really hard with her, setting routines, boundaries, expectations, and being consistent...but I also think she is just darn good natured and we got lucky) so I respect you so much for dealing with all of the stress and hair pulling moments on little sleep to make it work. So many people would send her on her way and not even attempt to understand what is going on in her head or body, or if she has any needs that aren't being met. HUGE pat on the back! |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1188
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| 03/01/2013 1:29 PM |
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| So...that popped up on my news feed again today and I took the time to read more than the first paragraph and realized it is promoting a treadmill. Sorry about that...but the first portion of it had a good point. I guess based upon having photos of a GSP on facebook, the advertisers have decided to throw in dog exercise ads. Leads me to think two things, GSP reputations proceed them, and also that I really hate social media's attempts to sum me up by things I post. |
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gadawgsfan
SH
Posts:55
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| 03/18/2013 2:11 PM |
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latest update, well nothing is working as far as sleep goes.I have changed shifts at work so when i get home at 1:30 am I take her out, which has stopped the peeing during the night(beating her to the punch) as one of you said.
No matter what we do with her she is going to wake up before 5:00 am every single morning. I took her out on saturday all day long, she played with another dog, ran and dug in the lake bottom played chase in the woods made a few points at different things even managed to get in the water to about mid leg.This was for 4 or 5 hours and it was full steam ahead the whole time. Came home it took her 20 minutes to eat she was so tired and kept stopping instead of eating it all then, we settled down and just played with her toys in the living room, she was trying to go to sleep the last hour,Finally put her to bed at 11:30 and low and behold 4:56 am barking and whinning wanting to get out of her crate.
I have even tried as someone had suggested let her sleep beside us with the leash on our wrist still the same thing wakes up before 5:00, my wife and I are walking around like zombies half the time.
It is crazy that our new addition to the family is causing us to work in shifts so the other one can get some sleep,neither one of us has been able to sleep a full night in the past few months. oh well i guess it is what it is.
She is going for her hunt training on wednesday, so maybe for the next month we will get some sleep! LOL
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7835
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| 03/18/2013 6:11 PM |
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| What do you do when she wakes you at 5 am? My guess is she has you guys trained. Dogs can tell time better than we can. Mine can be outside playing and come 4 PM they all want in. If I ignore them they will ramp up until I let them in. If I let them in and ignore them they will all four sit and stare at me or the will all four start getting into things they are not supposed to. This is shorthairs aged 2 to 10. I feed them at 4 most days and they know it. They did the same thing in the mornings because they want to eat. They started waking me up earlier and earlier. I would give in and feed them, and they got worse. I ended up ignoring them and not getting up until all were quiet. Then I started changing the time I feed in the morning. It took many sleepless mornings for them to get it, but now they know if they wake me up it takes longer to get to eat. My guess is your pup is getting rewarded in some way at 5 am. Just something to think about. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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gadawgsfan
SH
Posts:55
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| 03/18/2013 6:38 PM |
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yes mam texas belle, u are correct, she eats around 5:30 or 6:00. we tried just ignoring her for 3 or 4 nights, if it was 20 to 30 minutes thats one thing but after 2 hours of whinning and barking every morning we just could not take it anymore.
Im really not sure its the food so much, because when we do feed her at that time she hardly ever eats like she is starving in fact she leaves some of her food alot of the times. you are definately more experinced witht this this breed than myself and i always value your opinon, i changed her food based on your opinon.
i am at a total loss and dont have a clue at this point what to do, unless feeding her at a later time would help then i am willing to try anything at this point |
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Max2
Oneonta NY
MH
Posts:1106
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| 03/19/2013 3:12 AM |
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| Just a thought. When you guy's are in there ignoring her do you talk to one another or are you perfectly quite ? If she can here you guy's moving around or talking she will think it's "get up time" .These dogs are very smart & know how to get results that work for them. You can't give these little "people" an inch or they will use it against you ! I would put ear plugs in & make her wait two hours every morning at this point. She will get it. She's just being an "imp" . |
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Chris |
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:3130
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| 03/19/2013 4:19 AM |
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Oh darn I hoped the leash would help... the good thing is the night peeing stopped o no more washing (I hate washing)... as far as getting up at 5am.... mine get up like clock work at 6am... even on weekends when I want to sleep in... however as soon as they get up go potty and eat they want to get on the couches and go back to sleep... I am one of those people that once up I can't go back to sleep... so sometimes I will lay on the couch with them till 7am...
Will she sleep till 5am even if she goes to bed earlier like 8pm or 9pm? If so I would go to bed early too so you can get some sleep....
Yeah for doggie training camp so you and your wife can have some alone time and sleep time! I am wondering if she will come back with different sleep patterns after training.... |
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:3130
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| 03/19/2013 4:23 AM |
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| Her reward getting up might just be time with you if she doesn't seem interested in food... |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7835
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| 03/19/2013 9:08 AM |
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| Definitely she has you trained. You can't give in to her no matter how long it takes. I know it is hard, but put the earplugs in and go back to sleep. Turn on the radio or TV too if that will help. Whatever it takes, but do not get up when she whines. Or beat her to the whining, get up and feed her and then go back to sleep. That is what I used to do, but I just wanted one morning where I could sleep in uninterrupted. So, I gritted my teeth and help out. Now they know that unless I am getting up the shenanigans don't work. Of course, they now know that if my alarm goes off it means I am supposed to get up, so no snoozing for me. They are very smart and they are routine addicts. So, you define your routing and enforce it. Be gentle, but firm and stick to your guns. She will learn and it really is only painful for a short while. Much better than a life ruled by your dog. BTW this is not about hunger, but more about the routine. She know she is supposed to get up and eat and so she is enforcing the routine. If she were really hungry she would start in earlier and earlier and the next thing you know you would be getting up at midnight to feed her. They are smart, you have to be smarter and firmer. Good luck! |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1188
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| 03/19/2013 9:28 AM |
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| I don't want to you to take offense to this as I am only speculating based upon the posts but I think the main culprit here is that this girl has not had a set routine since coming to you. And, it's the result of you guys trying to make things better that's why I don't want you to think I'm criticizing, I just think thats your main problem. And, now it's to the point that lack of Consistent routine may be her routine and what she can rely on is some of the positively reinforced negative behavior. My girl was a breeze and to this day sleeps like a log (we called her noodle as a puppy because she just turned into a wet noodle when tired and now that she's older its been fondly changed to sack of potatoes), so ican only imagine the frustration and I feel so much for you guys because you are trying so hard and these dogs can be so rewarding. Still rooting for you and feeling your pain in the meantime. |
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gadawgsfan
SH
Posts:55
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| 03/19/2013 4:11 PM |
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no offense taken, that is why I am here asking for all the advice and suggestions. I have said I do think that we may be apart of the problem.
inthink it is also hard for her to get totally set in a routine because i change shifts every three months and it throws everybody in the house off, so it goes without saying she is confused as well.This time i come in and take her out then directly back to her crate and i get in bed.
We are just going to keep plugging along and try to implement more of a consistant routine,
Thanks again for all the advice, will keep everybody posted
Barry |
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:3130
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| 03/19/2013 5:12 PM |
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| My husband works a swing shift... one week days next week nights... even some weekends day or night... however each of our dogs sleep in bed with our kids and they sleep with bed room doors closed... as puppies mine wear collars with bells on them... i am a light sleeper so i hear the bell jingle as the pup starts to stir so even before they cry or whine... inlet them out and put them back to bed... usually when they r young they will stir when my husband comes home from night shift... but iblet them out not him... soon they get used to him coming home in the middle of the night and they sleep through it... i dont know how they get used to it but they do... |
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