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Subject: Allergies and opportunistic yeast infection?
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mckee.lucieUser is Offline
Seattle, WA
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01/09/2013 11:54 AM  

 Knock on wood...Luna's had a pretty good streak of health this year until we just got back from her yearly vet appointment and verified that infact her feet licking and chewing along with her butt licking is suggested to be related to these on and off allergies that we can't pinpoint. Her feet licking/chewing which keeps them moist has now grown into a yeast infection which her vet is treating her with Ketoconazole 200mg twice daily until it clears up. He wants to re-check her in 2 weeks. 

Wanted to see if you all have more experience with this? We've gone through the roundabout with Luna as a pup with some flares of allergies that seem to be likely environmental, at this point they're more just bothersome on occasion when they flare up and difficult to pinpoint so we're not doing any allergy test unless it were to worsen. Her feet licking and chewing has also comes and goes and is really difficicult to pinpoint. In this wet weather where it's impossible in Seattle to keep her feet dry at all times in combination with the licking, the opportunisic yeast has taken off.

Our vet suggested we stay on the ketoconazole 200mg twice daily and re-assess in 2 weeks how it's doing. He said it can take a while for external skin yeast like this to clear up. Also suggested we try and give her a weekly bath at this point with a good hypoallergenic oatmeal based shampoo to rid of any possible environmental allergens, along with wiping her feet down dry whenever we can, and upping her amount of omega fatty acids thru her fish oil she already gets to double that amount.

Any suggestions or imput on what else you think may be reasonable would be greatly appreciated!  

Thanks! - Lucie

Nancy DUser is Offline
No. Lower MI - Gaylord Area
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01/10/2013 11:14 AM  
Just a thought, but are you giving her any Benadry? My dobe has outdoor allergies, from what I don't know because I haven't had him tested. His don't cause him to lick his feet, etc. His is more scratching on his belly and licking his inside thighs to the point that the areas get quite red. I give him Benadryl which really helps with the itching. You can give one 25mg. tab for every 25lbs. every 4-6hrs. My Baron gets 3 at least 3x a day, particularly during the Spring/Summer/Fall when there is more stuff flying around in the air and on the ground.
smatulewiczUser is Offline
Michigan
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01/10/2013 1:51 PM  

I haven't experienced it yet. Bella does lick her feet and legs, but only when she is tired and not excessively, so I haven't amounted it to much more as of yet. I thought maybe it was just soothing to her when she is overly tired. With her allergies in the Summer, I'm surprised we didn't experience an infection...but I'll knock on wood we continue the luck.

I have to make an appointment for my mom's little Yorkie. She is about 9 years old now and mom called telling me that she smells horrible. I told her that she needed to be expressed and explained how to do it. Of course...she refused and took her to a groomer who did so. She called me again telling me that wasn't the source of the smell and that she still smelt like "sour milk". A sweet sour smell that isn't horrendously overwhelming..but lingers and baths only mask it for about half a day. I haven't experienced a yeast infection but this my only guess as to what this could be. But, my mom said she isn't licking, scratching...her ears are fine...coat seems normal. Normal behavior and normal self other than a lingering sour smell. I'm baffled. Maybe yeast?

Hope Luna clears up quickly and is back to herself soon!

mckee.lucieUser is Offline
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01/10/2013 7:23 PM  
Nancy - thanks for the suggestion with benadryl. We have tried it, and it seems to do nothing for her unfortunately. She's always be pretty resistant to it doing much for her even when she was a younger pup. Our vet had to always give us stronger stuff like hydroxizine pamoate (sp?) and or prednisolone to really calm things down if they got out of hand. As of now we don't know what came first, allergies or the yeast...so we're at least treating the yeast to get a handle on it and then going from there. Thankfully I feel like her allergies she had during her 1st year that seemed to be environmental she's outgrown of, just hope it's not something else that's really difficult to identify...never easy is it?

I haven't noticed much of a smell from her at all, even though the vet said he could smell her feet. I have a terrible sense of smell though, may be beneficial to me when she's gassy :)

If something interesting comes up I'll be sure to let you know. We're going to look into other triggers and looking at her diet more closely at her 2 week follow-up.
kpwleeUser is Offline
Raleigh, NC
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01/11/2013 5:55 AM  
I think I may have suggested this in the past but putting her feet in black tea is supposed to be really effective, something about the tannins iirc.
I know 5 or 6 people that have done this with success.

Another thought I would try is a groomer once told me that she will literally use yogurt on dogs with yeast issues. A good plain yogurt with active cultures. I would try rubbing some on her feet, in between the pads and toes perhaps at night.

BTW that medicine is similar to the one they use for human's with toenail fungus - and is very hard on the liver.
I would give her milk thistle daily - just open the capsules and add it to her food. Milk thistle is perfectly safe and helps protect the liver. I always use it when I give nsaid's to Bugsy because they can be really hard on the liver too

I hope she heals up quickly!!

It's Bugsy's world...
http://dailyzoomie.blogspot.com/
SplatUser is Offline
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01/11/2013 7:55 AM  
In my experience with my boxer when her feet got itchy and she licked them it was a food allergy... and soaking in the tea did help sooth it!

mckee.lucieUser is Offline
Seattle, WA
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01/11/2013 8:11 AM  
kpwlee - you did suggest the tea thing once before when we also had a short bought of this. I didn't see much relief for her unfortunately with is, besides wanting to lick all the tea off her feet then! I'd imagine she'd do the same thing with yogurt as she LOVES to eat it :)

I'll look into milk thistle. How much do you give Bugsy? Just one capsule with each meal or more?
mckee.lucieUser is Offline
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01/11/2013 8:15 AM  
one more thing I wanted to ask....since we still are trying to figure out this big allergy possible question, food or environmental. Would any of you recommend allergy testing?
I feel like it's really pulling a needle from a haystack for as much as it is, and then what would you necessarily do with the info?

I want to look at her food a bit closer if it is any allergen in it. We pay so much attention to the food she gets to make sure really does get good solid ingredients in her food. Right now she's on Nature's Variety Instinct (grain-free), and we tend to rotate every few bags between the salmon, beef, and lamb. She's been a really picky eater for us always, so we find that rotating the protein source has kept her really interested. She does get random treats throughout the day that I realize we'd have to definitely limit if we're going to get serious about investigating foods. Any suggestion on how you'd start or go about this?
pixie beeUser is Offline

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01/11/2013 8:44 AM  

I don't know how this would work with dogs but raw saurkraut helps a lot in humans.
start off with about 1 teaspoon 2 times a day and work your way up (possible bad gas) to 1 tbls 3 times a day,preferable before meals but not an absolute.


Do it for yourself,too. You'll feel great.

 

(It's a probiotic)



"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
SplatUser is Offline
Illinois (Northern)
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01/11/2013 8:48 AM  
Seeing how you do rotate between salmon, beef and lamb makes me think it very well could be food related... I think I would start with either feeding only the salmon or only the lamb and eliminating the beef... I am not sure how long though to stay strict on the one to see a difference, I would imagine quite a good amount of time... you also have to figure in trying to fix up the itchy paws cuz as they heal they will go through an itchy phase....

kpwleeUser is Offline
Raleigh, NC
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01/11/2013 9:19 AM  
I give Bugsy a capsule once or twice daily when I give rimadyl.
I would give her at least a capsule a day while on the meds.

What a silly girl wanting to eat the tea! Did you make it really strong?
I imagine the yogurt would make most dogs want to lick it but it may be worth a try and using a cone for a while with her.
The fungal infection (that is what the med is for) is due to the licking not so much the initial allergy so keeping her away from her feet is a must at this time.

I too would look at choosing a single protein and sticking with it BUT if you are rotating the kibbles and not seeing a change between them it could be some other ingredient in the kibble or it could be a reaction to grass/other plants that she walks on
good luck allergies suck - B has environmental ones and also serious allergies to chicken, turkey, duck and egg. Once we got the food ones sorted out he was easily managed

It's Bugsy's world...
http://dailyzoomie.blogspot.com/
Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
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01/11/2013 11:08 AM  
For food allergies to isolate the culprit you usually have to go to a special food and then add additional ingredients over a long period to see if you get reactions in order to isolate. Belle has food allergies and would get skin rashes, skin infections and had problems with yeast infections as well until we figured out the problem. I got lucky in that my first guess was correct. I did not go for the normal method at first where you get the dog on a special food allergy food and then add in different things over time. I just switched her food from a beef based food to a lamb based food (same brand) and left her on it for about a month when I started seeing a marked improvement. You might want to try the lamb based food and stick with it for a period of time. If the problems improve, then you can figure it is either the beef or salmon. The real challenge comes in if it is some other ingredient that shows up in lots of foods. Good luck!

Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
mckee.lucieUser is Offline
Seattle, WA
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01/11/2013 7:27 PM  
thanks for the suggestions everyone! I'm definitely going to look into the food closer...and see if I can stick with one for long enough to see a difference. The tough thing with her is she's so picky that she gets bored of the food after 3 large bags on it and slowly looses interest even if she's hungry. Maybe I can eliminate the salmon since that's what she's been on the past 2 bags during which her flareup has re-started. My concern is, lets say it is salmon - we were recommended to increase her daily omega-3 to double of what we're currently giving which we give her thru fish oil that she LOVES on her food. Could it be the way fish is processed in general or could fish oil that she gets daily cause the same symptoms?

kpwlee - maybe I didn't make the tea strong enough. I can try it again. Luna does try and eat and drink anything us humans eat and drink :) I did find a wash I've been washing her feet with daily with the help of my husband that is a chlorohexidine + ketoconazole shampoo to wash her feet of once or twice daily. Have any of you used this before?

Texas Belle - you said that you usually have to go to a specific food and then add additional ingredients. What do you suggest as a specific food or what do you mean by that? A limited ingredient diet? I saw last time I was at our local small pet store, natures variety now makes a limited ingredient version of her food. Is that what you mean?
Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
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01/12/2013 11:15 AM  
Ask your vet about a limited ingredient diet and how to eliminate ingredients. They will probably recommend a Science Diet variety that requires a Vet's prescription. You could though try it with the one you saw at the pet store. Google elimination diets for dogs and see what you can find online. I am at the airport right now, but will also look when I get home. You could also just switch to a limited ingredient food and see what happens. If she clears up, then you can add in specific ingredients.

I would be surprised if the fish oil gave you problems, but I think I would stop it if you are going to try an elimination diet. You can always add it back in later.

Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
SplatUser is Offline
Illinois (Northern)
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01/12/2013 12:28 PM  
if you use treats you will want to stop using them and instead replace them with whatever food you are choosing to use...

SplatUser is Offline
Illinois (Northern)
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01/12/2013 12:28 PM  
if you go beef or chicken based to keep interest in the food you could probably add some boiled chicken or beef bits to it...

SmylinachaUser is Offline
Connecticut
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01/13/2013 6:49 PM  
Windsor has food allergies.....he can't have any grain. If he does he gets itchy, pink, licks his pause and gets yeast in his ears. Both dogs are on grain free and Windsor will get benadryl at times but not all the time. No more itchies since he has been on salmon taste of the wild.
SmylinachaUser is Offline
Connecticut
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01/13/2013 6:49 PM  

Windsor has food allergies.....he can't have any grain. If he does he gets itchy, pink, licks his paws and gets yeast in his ears. Both dogs are on grain free and Windsor will get benadryl at times but not all the time. No more itchies since he has been on salmon taste of the wild.

Phillyo118User is Offline
UK
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01/16/2013 8:03 AM  
Hi Lucie, Bentley used to do this loads after walking on grass that grew next to the canal where I sometimes walked him. However, I have been feeding my two a Raw Meaty Bones diet for the last month or two and have noticed a HUGE difference in them both, from their coats, eyes, temperament, health, less poop, no smell, better breath, bright white teeth to the fact he no longer licks his paws or has flakey skin either. I'm probably going to make a new post about raw feeding soon, but thought I'd add this to the other suggestions.

"From the dog's point of view, his master is an elongated and abnormally cunning dog."

"My goal in life is to be as good of a person my dog already thinks I am."
mckee.lucieUser is Offline
Seattle, WA
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01/16/2013 9:42 AM  
Phillyo118 - I'd love to learn more about what you're doing. If you make a new post I'm sure it'll get lots of good feedback. Luna's yeast infection on her paws are improving with the ketoconazole and twice daily foot rinses in betadine providine dilution then drying them well. We have a follow-up with our vet in a week and are going to possibly discuss food changes at that visit.
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