Welcome to

          shorthairs.net

  Login  Register Thursday, May 23, 2013     
Subject: [working-gundog] Prey drive 3
Prev Next
You are not authorized to post a reply.

Author Messages
rospiganUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:372


11/25/2007 10:00 AM  
What is the "China syndrome" or "Nuclear melt-down" that sometimes happens in the brain of our dogs when they hit game. Cj wrote an interesting point some years ago. Some dogs unconsciously close their ears when they hit game (point or chase) and we might think that they have got the "melt-down" in their brain. That is our interpretation, since they do not show the slightest sign of hearing our commands or whistle,  but it may not be the case with such dogs. They could be completely sober, they just do not hear anything.
 
I am thinking of dogs whose emotions are raised by the sight or scent of game to such levels, so they totally loose control of themselves. I figure they get intoxicated by all kinds of adrenalins and hormones that are triggered by the contact with game. I would like to compare with some young men when they get contact with a lovely, sexy girl. They can give up their work, money, car, family, you name it, for this girl.
 
I also come to think of this man, usually a very calm and controlled man in everyday life. In one particular situation he however totally lost control of himself. He used to go seafowling and those who had been with him said that while waiting for the ducks to come he was still totally calm but once he saw them he was a danger to all around him including himself. He started to shoot in every direction and continued to do it until the ducks had vanished out of sight. Afterwards he was calm and controlled again. The sight of game stimulated his brain to produce far too much of this and that hormone and that is precisely what I think happens to some dogs also.
 
I knew this man briefly but not enough to know how he actually was  constituted. Humans are far better in hiding their bad sides than animals are so you got to know a person very thoroughly before you can say that you really know him. If I knew him very well today, perhaps I would say that he actually had a poor nerve stability. Maybe he was rather nervous in many situations but a master in hiding his weakness?
 
When we estimate our dogs behaviour we sort of estimate it against human behaviour. A well mannered dog should do about the same as a well mannered human partner would do in the same situation. This is possible because we can train dogs to behave like we want them to behave. We can train them because they are pack animals like us and basically they have the same pack structure,  behaviour and pack ethics as we have.
 
Many of our Nordic human pack hunting methods, moose, deer, boar,  are based on guns that are put out on their post and  they are expected to stay there give and take a few meters. This discipline is crucial for the safety but also for the success of the drive.
Still there are now and then those who cant stand still but roam around in either small circles thereby making sure that no game will come their way, or in large circles and become a danger for themselves and others. Usually they are not welcome to that shoot/ hunting party anymore.
 
The reason why they do this is that:
 
1.They have not accepted to be dominated (in this case by the hunting leader).
 
2. They are too anxious to actually understand the command fully and the different reasons why the command to stay at their post is given. Hence they are too nervous to be able to trust the leader unconditionally.
 
In both cases they brake the rules for different reasons but in neither case do they brake the rules because the have too much of prey drive.
 
Can you find the similarities to dogs?
 
Torsti
There are similar dogs that never can learn to cooperate 
Borta Med Vindens Kennel
"Ask not what your dog can do for you.
Ask what you can do for your dog."
www.rospigan.net
mcottonUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:87


11/30/2007 1:07 AM  
Don's email I finally managed to get home so I could place it on here for further comments.
 
I have read about prey drive as Torsti discusses i.e. behaviour in the pack and individual attack on prey, in relation to the work of cattle & sheep dogs but have never clearly understood what is meant.
 My 10 month old Springer spaniel male is developing now and is at a point where I am stepping up his obedience and field & game introduction .
He is a major challenge because from the moment he leaves his kennel he is ‘hunting’ with very strong drive. By that I mean, on a walk for instance, he is constantly focussing on birds flying and ground movement e.g.  leaf movement  or a movement in the bush.
 Around the garden ,when he is loose, he is constantly hunting for lizards & anything that moves e.g. bush turkeys that come into the garden. He catches frill-neck lizards and retrieves them to hand gently.
He is quite obedient on lead , however at the local obedience class, if a bird flies within 150m it distracts him.
He is not too biddable or people orientated but slowly is building up some regard for me.
When he was younger it was food that was his main driver but now this hunting drive seems to dominate.
If I let him loose in an open park or field situation he runs hard and v.fast  (for a Springer) and if I give no command, heads directly for water or the heavy scrub where he chases scents and will quickly lose touch with me.
He is otherwise a soft dog around the house & people i.e. very submissive .
Torsti , my experience with ‘soft’ Springers has been that they may be soft around people and everyday situations but that quite often they hunt like Zulu warriors . However often ‘soft’ means that they are very obedient at contact with game or the flush of game and that is why the British have gone that way in their breeding perhaps. This fellow has none of that type of field softness however and ‘control’ is purely based on taught obedience.
Is it a surfeit of dopamine hormones that drive this pup? His brother from another litter won the National trial , but was a late bloomer. Another brother from that previous  litter was offered to me at 2 years of age, totally out of control.
I was told he would retrieve well. We went to a nearby piece of open ground and sent him for a retrieve, he ran straight to the fall of the dummy but kept going and we found him half an hour later hunting ducks in a reedy creek 750 metres away. So there are some genetic components.
I have been around a lot of gundogs but only once or twice have I seen this level of hunting drive, so he will be a challenge to get to a  steady dog on rabbits , let alone a trial dog.
Any comments would be useful,
Cheers, Don

 
cwaltUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:180


12/10/2007 10:10 PM  
Don's email I finally managed to get home so I could place it on here for further comments. My 10 month old Springer spaniel male is developing now and is at a point where I am stepping up his obedience and field & game introduction . Prescription: Lots of heeling exercises and variations on them. Plenty of obedience training. Your dog sounds like a prize. You might as well get used to working with a high gear dog. He will come under more control as you continue with yard training. Don't try to train out in the field where there might be birds or bird scent, he won't listen to you there. Control with door manners training, whoa, heel, down, come, etc. Any questions... just ask.. Good Luck Cj
cwaltUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:180


12/10/2007 10:17 PM  
----- Original Message ----- From: "Cj" To: Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 11:50 PM Subject: Re: [working-gundog] Prey drive 3 > > Don's email I finally managed to get home so I could place it on here for > further comments. > > My 10 month old Springer spaniel male is developing now and is at a point > where I am stepping up his obedience and field & game introduction . > > Prescription: > > Lots of heeling exercises and variations on them. > Plenty of obedience training. > > Your dog sounds like a prize. You might as well get used to working with > a high gear dog. He will come under more control as you continue with > yard training. Don't try to train out in the field where there might be > birds or bird scent, he won't listen to you there. > Control with door manners training, whoa, heel, down, come, etc. Any > questions... just ask.. > Good Luck > Cj Yes, door manners training is good for flushing dogs as well as pointing dogs... C
rospiganUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:372


12/11/2007 4:30 AM  
>>>Yes, door manners training is good for flushing dogs as well as pointing
dogs...
C >>

Who remembers and what and for how long? Basically we dropped any planned obedience training for the now 13 years old Foxy many years ago. Amazingly she still remembers to sit down at the door and take eye contact even when we never demand it any more.
 
The 7 year old Briz, that still is obedience trained now and then,  always tries to climb in the hierarchy and "forgets" both this and that. However none of them have developed any irritating habits after we gave them more "slack on the lead", so to say. So what was planted early is still alive today.
 
Give the puppy and young dog a lot of good manners as early as possible. Then they will not forget and 10 years later you can still enjoy the fruit of the small effort it took long ago.
 
Yesterday was a historical day for our computers. 1995 when we bought our first computer it had a "huge" 520 MB harddrive. The next one had an incredible 6 GB HD. Right now I am not even sure of how many HD:s there are in each of the computers but all together nearly a Terabyte of them. Yesterday I bought an external storage 500GB HD and with that one we have taken the step well to the other side of the 1TB figure. What comes after that? Mega, Giga and Tera are used and will be stone-age stuff in the near future. Talk about growth!
 
It is not the carbon dioxide or other greenhouse gases that are our main problem, they are just the symptoms from the real main problem. The main problem is the growth. Growth in every direction and an economy based on growth in the population and in the consumption. On my planet that only has one single size that can't grow or shrink, a growth in welfare must be based on a decrease in population so that those who are left can consume more and more. When the population has decreased until it is infinitely small they can consume infinite amounts of whatever without doing any harm to the climate or anything else on the planet. But only then.
 
Torsti  
 
Borta Med Vindens Kennel
"Ask not what your dog can do for you.
Ask what you can do for your dog."
www.rospigan.net
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Forums > Mailing Lists > working-gundog > [working-gundog] Prey drive 3



ActiveForums 3.7
 Private Message Count
Minimize
You must be logged in to use this module.
UsersOnline
Membership Membership:
Latest New User Latest: cfl_short
New Today New Today: 2
New Yesterday New Yesterday: 0
User Count Overall: 3208

People Online People Online:
Visitors Visitors: 112
Members Members: 0
Total Total: 112

Online Now Online Now:
 Print   
Home  |  Events  |  Blogs  |  Photo Gallery  |  GSP Forum
 Terms Of Use | Privacy Statement | WHC DNN Site 
Copyright 2008-2011 by Rick Petersen