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rospigan
MH
Posts:372
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| 07/12/2009 1:08 AM |
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Re: [working-gundog] Dog problems
There is a link to a field trial video, if it doesnt show
immedeatly try to reload the page, I had to. Something that struck me is how
clearly it shows the difference in the British mountain terrain compared to
our bare mountain terrain. In the heather that covers the moor all over
there can also be birds all over. In Scandinavia we do not have such moores but
only patches of vegetation here and there with sterile areas between. Hence it
is of no use to quarter the ground for our dogs but they better make the
distance from one patch of productive vegetation to another, as short as
possible.
Torsti
Borta Med Vindens Kennel
www.rospigan.net
"If you pick up a
starving dog and make him prosperous,
he will not bite you; that is the
principal difference
between a dog and a man." /Mark Twain
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jikoj
JH
Posts:23
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| 07/12/2009 9:45 AM |
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Torsti, Neat video, Our FDSB & AKC guys would have cat fits! In these trials is it OK for the dogs to relocate on their own?.....very practical for hunting pheasants especially and acceptable (desirable) in our JGHV tests. I have Drahthaars and have learned to just keep my mouth shut as the dog knows more about where the birds are, or have moved to, than I do.
Jim, Birka and Hetzi
-----Original Message-----
From: Maud & Torsti
To: working-gundog@web.whc.net
Sent: Sun, Jul 12, 2009 1:51 am
Subject: [working-gundog] Irish moor
There is a link to a field trial video, if it doesnt show immedeatly try to reload the page, I had to. Something that struck me is how clearly it shows the difference in the British mountain terrain compared to our bare mountain terrain. In the heather that covers the moor all over there can also be birds all over. In Scandinavia we do not have such moores but only patches of vegetation here and there with sterile areas between. Hence it is of no use to quarter the ground for our dogs but they better make the distance from one patch of productive vegetation to another, as short as possible.
Torsti
Borta Med Vindens Kennel
www.rospigan.net
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,
he will not bite you; that is the principal difference
between a dog and a man." /Mark Twain
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rospigan
MH
Posts:372
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| 07/12/2009 10:44 AM |
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>>Jim, Birka and Hetzi>>
I am not sure about the British field trial rules, I only know they are
slightly different from our rules. In Scandinavia we prefer a dog that does the
whole work, search, find, nail the birds by relocating as much as needed and
then, when the gun is ready, also flush the bird on command. It must be steady
to flush, shot and fall and when the first situation has settled and the smoke
cleared, also investigate the grounds for any birds that may remain. When that
is done it has to fetch the shot bird and deliver to hand. That is the ideal
picture and there are more than one dog who do it all the way but of course far
from all.
Whatever, the more the dog can do by its own initiative, the better.
Ideally the handler should only take the (well trained and experienced dog) dog
to the hunting grounds, follow the dog silently, shoot the birds the dog
find, carry the birds back to the car and take the dog back home at the end of
the day.
Well, the reality is different for many of us  ))
Reality for me right now is that I must now leave for some time in
order to earn some money. I´ll be back after 2 weeks!
Cheers!
Torsti
Borta Med Vindens Kennel www.rospigan.net "If you pick up a
starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the
principal difference between a dog and a man." /Mark Twain
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wharton
Posts:6
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| 07/12/2009 12:44 PM |
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I am not sure about the British field trial rules, I only know they are
slightly different from our rules. In Scandinavia
we prefer a dog that does the whole work, search, find, nail the birds by
relocating as much as needed and then, when the gun is ready, also flush the
bird on command. It must be steady to flush, shot and fall and when the first
situation has settled and the smoke cleared, also investigate the grounds for
any birds that may remain. When that is done it has to fetch the shot bird and
deliver to hand. That is the ideal picture and there are more than one dog who
do it all the way but of course far from all.
British FT rules for HPR’s do not
differ apart from as a rule once the bird has been shot then the dog is sent on
command
Margarita
Borta Med Vindens Kennel
www.rospigan.net
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,
he will not bite you; that is the principal difference
between a dog and a man." /Mark Twain
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azwhitemtndogs3
Posts:16
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| 07/12/2009 2:06 PM |
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Can I share this with the GWP_Gossip list, please? We've been talking about FTs around the world, too.
Phyllis, 10 wonderful grandchildren and Ch. RB, Flash!, Katie in Mesa, Az, USA
--- On Sun, 7/12/09, Margarita Booker wrote:
> From: Margarita Booker
> Subject: RE: [working-gundog] Irish moor
> To: working-gundog@web.whc.net
> Date: Sunday, July 12, 2009, 11:28 AM
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> I am not sure about the British field
> trial rules, I only know they are
> slightly different from our rules. In Scandinavia
> we prefer a dog that does the whole work, search, find,
> nail the birds by
> relocating as much as needed and then, when the gun is
> ready, also flush the
> bird on command. It must be steady to flush, shot and fall
> and when the first
> situation has settled and the smoke cleared, also
> investigate the grounds for
> any birds that may remain. When that is done it has to
> fetch the shot bird and
> deliver to hand. That is the ideal picture and there are
> more than one dog who
> do it all the way but of course far from
> all.
>
> British FT
> rules for HPR’s do not
> differ apart from as a rule once the bird has been shot
> then the dog is sent on
> command
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> Margarita
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> Borta Med Vindens Kennel
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> www.rospigan.net
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> "If you pick up a starving dog and make him
> prosperous,
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> he will not bite you; that is the principal difference
>
> between a dog and a man." /Mark
> Twain
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robclayau
JH
Posts:36
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| 07/12/2009 2:12 PM |
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Hi Jim,
American field trials differ from the rest of the world in that regard.
Just about everywhere else in the world the dog is free to relocate on
its own. We call it roading and consider it a very desirable trait,
where a dog learns to apply exactly the right amount of pressure to
birds, too much and they will fly, too little and they will run out
from under the point. Another difference is that in most countries it
is the dog that flushes the birds.
However in the USA, particularly US FTs, the handlers like to get in
front of the dog and do the flushing. I suspect these differences arose
because of the fact that in the US the dogs are frequently working out
of sight and therefore are likely to have to hold point for a lot
longer (while that handler locates the dog) than in situations where
the dog is wholly or largely in sight. Therefore in the USA, the dog
hits scent, points and stays there. If the handler takes 10 mins to
find the pointing dog, that's OK, the dog knows that it never moves
until released. The birds will likely have run out from under the point
by this time, but with several relocations they can possibly be
re-pinned, and should they flush wild at least the handler is there
with the gun and can make a decision about the next move. On the other
hand 10 minutes would be a long time for many self relocating dogs to
hold point, many of them would have crept just that little bit close to
the birds and busted them. In that case, a well trained dog would be
sitting waiting for the handler, since our dogs are trained to sit to
flush.
So really it differences in the birds and the terrain that result in
different expectations from our dogs. Like you, I do think there are
times in the USA (such as pheasant hunting), where hunters would be
well served by breaking with US field trialling conventions and having
self relocating dogs that were free to move and pin the running birds.
Cheers,
Rob
jikoj@aol.com wrote:
Torsti, Neat video, Our FDSB & AKC guys would have cat
fits! In these trials is it OK for the dogs to relocate on their
own?.....very practical for hunting pheasants especially and acceptable
(desirable) in our JGHV tests. I have Drahthaars and have learned to
just keep my mouth shut as the dog knows more about where the birds
are, or have moved to, than I do.
Jim, Birka and Hetzi
-----Original Message-----
From: Maud & Torsti
To: working-gundog@web.whc.net
Sent: Sun, Jul 12, 2009 1:51 am
Subject: [working-gundog] Irish moor
There is a link to a field trial video, if it
doesnt show immedeatly try to reload the page, I had to. Something that
struck me is how clearly it shows the difference in the
British mountain terrain compared to our bare mountain terrain. In the
heather that covers the moor all over there can also be birds all over.
In Scandinavia we do not have such moores but only patches of
vegetation here and there with sterile areas between. Hence it is of no
use to quarter the ground for our dogs but they better make the
distance from one patch of productive vegetation to another, as short
as possible.
Torsti
Borta Med Vindens Kennel
www.rospigan.net
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,
he will not bite you; that is the principal difference
between a dog and a man." /Mark Twain
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robclayau
JH
Posts:36
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| 07/12/2009 2:22 PM |
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Hi Torsti,
Thanks for the link, great video.
You're spot on that differences in vegetation, terrain and bird habits
all cause differences in the most efficient way to hunt, and hence
differences in what we expect from our dogs. In Aust our situation is
similar to that in the UK, a continuous cover with bird distributed
throughout, so we expect our dogs to quarter the ground in a similar
style to the UK. In the USA, the situation is more similar to what you
describe in Scandinavia, where the dog it expected to hit birdy
objectives. Different birds, different terrain and cover, different
expectations from our hunting dogs.
Cheers,
Rob
PS Enjoy your work ;-) I too know the feeling, I'm back to work today
after a enjoying a lovely 2 week break.
Maud & Torsti wrote:
Re: [working-gundog] Dog problems
There is a link to a field trial video, if it
doesnt show immedeatly try to reload the page, I had to. Something that
struck me is how clearly it shows the difference in the
British mountain terrain compared to our bare mountain terrain. In the
heather that covers the moor all over there can also be birds all over.
In Scandinavia we do not have such moores but only patches of
vegetation here and there with sterile areas between. Hence it is of no
use to quarter the ground for our dogs but they better make the
distance from one patch of productive vegetation to another, as short
as possible.
Torsti
Borta Med Vindens Kennel
www.rospigan.net
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,
he will not bite you; that is the principal difference
between a dog and a man." /Mark Twain
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greg
Posts:10
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| 07/12/2009 5:43 PM |
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unsubscribe
From: working-gundog-request@web.whc.net
[mailto:working-gundog-request@web.whc.net] On Behalf Of Maud &
Torsti
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:29 AM
To: working-gundog@web.whc.net
Subject: Re: [working-gundog] Irish moor
>>
Jim, Birka and Hetzi>>
I am
not sure about the British field trial rules, I only know they are slightly
different from our rules. In Scandinavia we prefer a dog that does the whole
work, search, find, nail the birds by relocating as much as needed and then,
when the gun is ready, also flush the bird on command. It must be steady to
flush, shot and fall and when the first situation has settled and the smoke
cleared, also investigate the grounds for any birds that may remain. When that
is done it has to fetch the shot bird and deliver to hand. That is the ideal
picture and there are more than one dog who do it all the way but of course far
from all.
Whatever,
the more the dog can do by its own initiative, the better. Ideally the handler
should only take the (well trained and experienced dog) dog to the hunting
grounds, follow the dog silently, shoot the birds the dog find, carry the
birds back to the car and take the dog back home at the end of the day.
Well,
the reality is different for many of us ))
Reality
for me right now is that I must now leave for some time in order to earn
some money. I´ll be back after 2 weeks!
Borta Med Vindens Kennel
www.rospigan.net
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,
he will not bite you; that is the principal difference
between a dog and a man." /Mark Twain
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greg
Posts:10
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| 07/12/2009 5:43 PM |
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unsub
From: working-gundog-request@web.whc.net
[mailto:working-gundog-request@web.whc.net] On Behalf Of jikoj@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 9:30 AM
To: working-gundog@web.whc.net
Subject: Re: [working-gundog] Irish moor
Torsti, Neat video, Our FDSB &
AKC guys would have cat fits! In these trials is it OK for the dogs to relocate
on their own?.....very practical for hunting pheasants especially and
acceptable (desirable) in our JGHV tests. I have Drahthaars and have
learned to just keep my mouth shut as the dog knows more about where the
birds are, or have moved to, than I do.
Jim, Birka and Hetzi
-----Original Message-----
From: Maud & Torsti
To: working-gundog@web.whc.net
Sent: Sun, Jul 12, 2009 1:51 am
Subject: [working-gundog] Irish moor
There
is a link to a field trial video, if it doesnt show immedeatly try to reload
the page, I had to. Something that struck me is how clearly it shows the
difference in the British mountain terrain compared to our bare mountain
terrain. In the heather that covers the moor all over there can also be
birds all over. In Scandinavia we do not have such moores but only patches of
vegetation here and there with sterile areas between. Hence it is of no use to
quarter the ground for our dogs but they better make the distance from one
patch of productive vegetation to another, as short as possible.
Borta
Med Vindens Kennel
www.rospigan.net
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,
he will not bite you; that is the principal difference
between a dog and a man." /Mark Twain
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lameduck
SH
Posts:44
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| 07/12/2009 10:16 PM |
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| I would sure hate to have to hunt with a dog that sat there until the
birds were all on the ground. I want my dogs going with the flush. I want
them there close to the bird when it hits the ground at least with
pheasants. The difference here with what I do and other places is that we
might flush and kill as many as 250 birds in a morning or an afternoon' we
don't want to flush or find any birds to far in front of the guns that
can't be shot if they fly. I don't care if the dogs chase a cripple a
forth of a mile if it is to the side or behind the guns. If they see
feathers fly or a leg drop they will stay with the bird. Otherwise I call
them off with the whistle.
Ron
> _____
>
> I am not sure about the British field trial rules, I only know they are
> slightly different from our rules. In Scandinavia we prefer a dog that
> does
> the whole work, search, find, nail the birds by relocating as much as
> needed
> and then, when the gun is ready, also flush the bird on command. It must
> be
> steady to flush, shot and fall and when the first situation has settled
> and
> the smoke cleared, also investigate the grounds for any birds that may
> remain. When that is done it has to fetch the shot bird and deliver to
> hand.
> That is the ideal picture and there are more than one dog who do it all
> the
> way but of course far from all.
>
> British FT rules for HPR's do not differ apart from as a rule once the
> bird
> has been shot then the dog is sent on command
>
> Margarita
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Borta Med Vindens Kennel
> www.rospigan.net
> "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,
> he will not bite you; that is the principal difference
> between a dog and a man." /Mark Twain
>
>
>
>
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