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greg
Posts:10
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| 07/13/2009 2:28 PM |
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| UNSUBSCRIBE
-----Original Message-----
From: working-gundog-request@web.whc.net
[mailto:working-gundog-request@web.whc.net] On Behalf Of Sonia Skinner
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 1:18 PM
To: working-gundog@web.whc.net
Subject: Re: [working-gundog] Dog problems
Yes, Drift is a house dog and you may remember he broke his elbow at 16
weeks and was in a small cage 24 hours a day for four weeks, then confined
to a room for a further four weeks then five minutes lead walking three
times a day etc etc. He was 8 months until I could do anything with him and
by then he was physically stronger than I was and a very excitable dog. The
problem of not returning with the dummy started when I took him to some
retriever classes at the beginning of last year, though there was evidence
of it before that if I look closely. It is so frustrating as he is an
excellent retrieving dog and I have been complemented by trainers and one
trainer who field trials wanted to buy him, I had to tell him he wouldn't be
able to work that much with his elbow.
Yesterday was an improvement at a training day put on by a gundog society.
There was a sheep feed bucket nearby and I got the trainer to lob that in
his direction when he started playing around after he had been sent for a
retrieve over a fence, down ravine (English style, not the Grand Canyon!),
up the other side, straight back over the ravine and then this silly
behaviour. After that he began to improve. We had one long seen retrieve
up a steep hill the dummy launcher was behind a corner so we could only see
it once it was high in the air, he marked that well, came straight back and
was sent for a blind in same direction, so that was motivational for him as
he had returned previous dummy to hand.
I am not resting on my laurels yet. But it is such a shame to have a good
dog which I am held back by this problem. I have to say though that
yesterday was a good day with some very testing retrieves and I was pleased
with him; he seemed more obedient, his heeling was excellent and did
everything I asked except bring the dummy to hand to begin with, but as I
said there was a marked improvement.
I think it must have been someone else who had sorted this problem two years
ago. I suppose one good thing is he never drops the dummy!
Sonia
On 12/7/09 22:20, "Jere Murray" wrote:
> Sonia, How frequently do you work with Drift and for how long each time?
Is
> he a
> housedog?
>
> Somehow I thought you had cured this issue with him a couple of years ago?
>
> Correction, It may only have been on Marg's Yahoo group 'CanineBH' that I
> wrote
> about the motivational approach. More recently I expanded on that on
> Maurice's
> Yahoo group 'pointingdogs'
>
> Jere
>> I can certainly try that. At the last class at the water, the other dogs
>> did not want to fetch the dummies, spaniels were off hunting the ducks
which
>> were swimming in profusion. So there were three dummies to retrieve, two
of
>> which were very flat 4"x4" and difficult to see in the water and they had
>> floated away to quite some distance and Drift was sent to collect them.
>> Each one he brought to hand beautifully, shook, sat and then was sent
again,
>> so there was an element of motivation there.
>>
>> Afterwards we did a retrieve on dry land over a bridge and he started
>> playing around so we managed to cut his exit, I made him sit and took the
>> retrieve, put him on the lead, gave him a talking to as I walked him to
the
>> car, put him in and went back to the class on my own, so denial of a
second
>> retrieve.
>>
>> The wretched dog is perfect with me, but a small light is that he now
>> retrieves to hand when I have the 'spaniel man' with me!
>>
>> Sonia
>>
>>
>> On 11/7/09 19:55, "Jere Murray" wrote:
>>
>>> You could also try a motivational method - in which you show the dog it
>>> CANNOT
>>> get
>>> another retrieve without returning all the way to you and properly
>>> presenting
>>> the
>>> retrieved object.
>>>
>>> I may have written on this subject here earlier.
>>>
>>> Jere
>
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soniaskinner1
SH
Posts:44
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| 07/13/2009 2:36 PM |
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Hi Greg,
I think you have to do something more complicated to unsubscribe. I think
Torsti might know but he is away at sea for a couple of weeks.
Sonia
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soniaskinner1
SH
Posts:44
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| 07/13/2009 2:37 PM |
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Re: [working-gundog] Dog problems
I would train alone or find another training group that don't worry so much about the pc stuff..
Maurice
Thanks Maurice, I have discovered one such group now.
An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
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greg
Posts:10
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| 07/13/2009 2:43 PM |
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| Hi
Someone asked "how" a few weeks ago and the reply was to send "UNSUBSCRIBE"
to the web address.
I did
They did
And I continue to try.
Someone will figure it out someday, I suspect
Regards
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: working-gundog-request@web.whc.net
[mailto:working-gundog-request@web.whc.net] On Behalf Of Sonia Skinner
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 2:22 PM
To: working-gundog@web.whc.net
Subject: Re: [working-gundog] Dog problems
Hi Greg,
I think you have to do something more complicated to unsubscribe. I think
Torsti might know but he is away at sea for a couple of weeks.
Sonia
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jmurr
MH
Posts:158
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| 07/13/2009 10:24 PM |
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| Here's the email I sent to your (Greg C's) address yesterday
Note the address the UNSUBSCRIBE has to be sent to is somewhat different from the
one by which emails are sent to the list.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Greg, try these:
Send an email message addressed to
working-gundog-request@web.whc.net
The BODY of the message should be:
UNSUBSCRIBE
(or maybe UNSUBSCRIBE working-gundog)
NOTHING ELSE SHOULD BE IN THE BODY OF THE MESSAGE!!!!!!
I don't think the content of the subject line makes any difference.
....................................
If this does not work for you, send email to:
postmaster@web.whc.net
or email Rick Petersen at:
rpetersen@whc.net
and request that your name be removed from working-gundog.
I hope one of these approaches works for you. Clearly, replying to messages sent
to the membership does not.
Jere
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
PS: IF ANYTHING ELSE besides the command (UNSUBSCRIBE) is in the body of the
message the listserv (or whatever software is dealing with these things) considers
the message to be sent to the list and ignores the command.
THUS, DO NOT SIMPLY RRPLY TO ANY MESSAGE FROM THE LIST AS YOU HAVE BEEN DOING IN
HOPES OF BEING REMOVED FROM THE LIST!!! ALL THAT DOES IS SEND YOUR REQUEST TO ALL
THE REST OF US.
Jere
> Hi
>
> Someone asked "how" a few weeks ago and the reply was to send "UNSUBSCRIBE"
> to the web address.
> I did
> They did
> And I continue to try.
> Someone will figure it out someday, I suspect
>
> Regards
> Greg
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jmurr
MH
Posts:158
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| 07/15/2009 3:30 AM |
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| Sonia, Drift is now, what, nearly 4 years old? He needs to come in when you call
ALWAYS. You need to work on this everywhere, everyday - in the house (call him to
you as he voluntarily comes when you prepare his meals), in the yard, on walks in
the park etc., in class. Anytime he decides to come towards you, give your recall
command and require he come in as your rituals require, then release him. You need
to establish control/no-control conditions.
When you send him for a retrieve he takes that as a release of your control and he
is doing as he pleases on the way in. Give your recall command at the instant he
begins to dip his head to pick the bumper. You assume control by doing so. He
must finish the retrieve according to your trained ritual after that (and you must
insist and insure he does). If he does not, you must make him do so. Silently
walk him down - just walk to him, if he flees, follow him - keep following until
you can physically control him (if he is dragging a lead this will be easier). Lead
him to the spot he was to return to and then do what you usually do to have him
finish the retrieve "properly." Then, maybe give him another chance, but maybe
just put him up in the car/truck/crate and take him home. Fun is over for the day.
There are a number of things you should do at home to establish and maintain
yourself as the leader of your little pack. I'll try and dig out something an old
member posted here several years ago which might help. maintaining this
relationship with the dog is a full time job. You can not let him be leader in the
house and expect you will be "in class." This does not mean you have to be in
control all the time but it does mean he needs to accept your control anytime you
choose to assert it.
Jere
> He does all that perfectly with me alone but not in a class! Fortunately he
> goes straight out for retrieve and doesn't hunt along the way. ...
> I had thought of an e-collar to teach him to bring dummy to hand in class as
> I am sure it is only a case of showing off in front of the other dogs, but
> of course it isn't politically correct and I am unable to use it, or other
> aversive, in a class! Though the sheep feed plastic bucket which happened to
> be in the field was used before anyone had a chance to object!
>
> Sonia
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jmurr
MH
Posts:158
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| 07/15/2009 1:18 PM |
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| Sonia,
A long time ago we had vigorous discussions here about being a good packleader.
The posts should still be in the archives but I don't know how to access them
anymore - used to be on shorthairs.net.
Here are a couple of the posts to this listwhich I saved and a link to a site you
might find applicable:
From: Terri Ferrier
To: working-gundog@u-net.com
Subject: Re: Being good packleaders
Date: Sunday, November 23, 1997 2:17 PM
On Sun, 23 Nov 1997 13:43:52 -0500 (EST), you wrote:
>I tested a IS-bitch today that was told be problematic. I found nothing
>unusual in the test, a lively dog with a mentalihity typical to show dogs.
>Then I showed the owner how to handle the lively bitch as a pacleader would.
>Within one hour the dog and owner had established some kind of contact that
>the owner had never experienced before. The only thing the dog had screamed
>for ( by beeing problematic ) was a good leader.
That same behavior is seen in many different types of dogs, not just showdogs. I
see it frequently with "pound puppies" and rescued dogs. I'm working right now with
a lady who got her dog from an adoption agency. They told her it was a lab cross
and it's almost all Border Collie with IMO Cocker Spaniel but not sure of that
part. It's a female going on 7 months old and she is really testing the waters
with dominance right now.
My obedience students are amazed at the difference in their dogs when they start
behaving as pack leaders and the fact that so many of a pack leaders behavior is
really only common sense/daily living things that they just didn't think of in that
context before.
Here is an article I include in my student handbook on working with dominant dogs
and becoming a good pack leader.
ALPHA-betizing Your Dog
No matter the task in dog training, your success can be increased by developing an
appropriate relationship between trainer and dog. Helping your dog understand
his or her position in your social hierarchy is an important component to dog
training. If your dog is not given appropriate guidance and doesn't perceive you
as an effective leader, the dog may become confused or even try to take over the
leadership role.
Consider this metaphor for communication between people and dogs, developed by
William Campbell. Compare your dog's life to a lifelong airplane trip totally
dependent
on the pilot and crew for necessities, including the need to feel safe. If the
pilot appears incompetent and the crew isn't sure about what's going on, the
passenger
starts squirming with anxiety as the frustration of being unable to control the
situation as it takes its toll. If the passenger tries to take control, they will
be subdued
physically or scolded, which only heightens the frustration. This situation can
be even more frustrating if the crew can't speak the passenger's language and
communicates the wrong ideas.
Communicating our role as competent leaders is paramount to effective obedience
training. How is this best accomplished? Dogs rely heavily on signals, postures
and other body language to get their ideas across to each other. Keeping this in
mind, owners can carefully structure everyday interactions with their dogs to
include
gestures and displays conveying their position as leader.
ALPHAbetize Your Dog
The following program uses leadership messages as a foundation for more specific
training. It will help promote you to Number One in your dog's eyes, the alpha
member of your living group.
Not only effective with the dog who is running for higher office, the
ALPHAbetizing concept has given confidence to shy and distrustful dogs by
providing a more stable,
predictable environment. The program has proven to be a good head start regime
for puppies and has been adapted for use at the South West Guide Dog Foundation.
Be sure your dog is physically fit before you begin the ALPHAbetizing program or
any training regime. There are medical problems that first manifest themselves as
behavior or training problems. Show the program to your veterinarian and get
approval before you begin.
To begin, select two or three ideas from the following list. If some of the
program components aren't compatible with your lifestyle, it won't hurt to skip
over those. As the first changes become habits, implement others.
Leaders get the follower's attention. Encourage eye contact several times a day.
Call Ginger's name and help her look at: you by tracing a line with your hand
between her face and yours. You can make your hand more interesting by holding a
motivator, something Ginger is excited about, such as a toy or a bit: of food.
Even a brief glance should be rewarded with praise and the motivator. After
several days, teach Ginger to play the lottery sometimes the reward is delivered,
sometimes it's
not.
Followers depend on the leader. Food is a primary reinforcer. Because Spot has
to eat to survive, use scheduled meals rather than free choice to demonstrate
your dependability and leadership. If Spot views you as the only source of food,
this raises your status. A full bowl on the floor at all times allows him to be
in control.
Leaders eat first. If one of your meals coincides with one of Ginger's scheduled
meals, make it a point to feed her after you have eaten. Think about wildlife
documentaries. Which wolf eats first?
Earning praise and treats. For the time being, don't give Spot attention or treats
unless they are earned by obeying a command. As an example, if Spot comes to you
for attention, tell him to sit before petting him. This should not result in less
attention for Spot. Give him more attention but on your terms.
Follow the leader. Don't allow Ginger to charge in and out of territory before
you. At the door of your home or vehicle, or at a fence gate, use a leash or a
verbal command to teach her to wait while you go through first, then invite her
to follow.
Leaders control territory. Spot should yield territory to the leader. If he is
lying down in a hallway and you want to pass, gently help him move out of the way
with a
nudge of your toe instead of stepping over or around him. A light line attached
to Spot's collar is useful to help move him out of the way. Remove the line if
you can't
supervise the dog.
Leaders mean what they say. Give commands ONCE and only once then help your dog
comply promptly. Don't beg or scream. Speak in a confident tone.
Leaders are winners. Control the games, control the dog. Ginger drops her ball at
your feet, backs up and barks. Then you pick up the ball and throw it for her.
Finally,
Ginger ends the game by taking the ball behind the couch. Ginger is giving the
commands. Controlling the game yourself enhances your leadership. You should
initiate the game, decide when to end the game and put the ball out of Ginger's
reach until next time. Don't play less, play more but on your terms.
Who gets the best resting place? Dogs belong with people, but one way to convey
leadership is to possess the choice resting places. Sleeping together in the bed
makes you seem like a litter mate, an equal. Until ALPHAbetizing is complete, your
dog may sleep in your bedroom at night, but not on your bed.
Muzzle control is a naturally dominant gesture. It's a part of your regular
petting and attention. Put your hand over the top of your dog's muzzle and gently
hold
it there for a few seconds. If your dog mouths your hand, discontinue this point
until later in the program or use a taste deterrent (available at pet shops) on
your hand.
A follower allows gentle handling. Teach your dog to stand still for daily
grooming;. Consider using "peanut butter therapy" a tiny smear of peanut butter on
a washable vertical surface such as the refrigerator door will distract, reward
and control the dog's head while you go over ticklish places.
Teach the appropriate behavior. "Train, don't complain". All too frequently,
owners concentrate on stopping inappropriate actions, but forget to teach their
dogs an
acceptable behavior for the same situation. Decide on an appropriate behavior and
train your dog. If you need help, check with your veterinarian for a dog obedience
class instructor who is knowledgeable in motivational training methods.
Down is a subordinate position. Once Spot begins to respond to basic obedience
commands, have him hold one 20 minute down-stay per day. Reinforce it but also
praise and reward him while he's being good.
A belly rub promotes a natural acceptance posture. When Ginger understands the
down command, invite her over for a once a day belly rub. Show her how enjoyable
this gesture of subordination can be. Command "down" and start rubbing until she
relaxes and goes belly-up.
Dogs thrive in the security of a predictable environment. The most important
element of a dog's environment should be the owner. ALPHAbetizing encourages
owners to maximize the effectiveness of time spent with their dogs.
Terri
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: bilozirw@cadvision.com
To: working-gundog@u-net.com
Subject: Re: Being good packleaders
Date: Monday, November 24, 1997 11:23 AM
Using Body Language of Canids to help establish a good relationship with
your dog is very important, and the concepts that Terri mentions are great.
It should also be mentioned that most dogs prefer to avoid conflict, and
that good leadership requires that we learn to read our dogs body language
more effectively. If we show dominant or aggressive behaviour to our dogs,
it is important that we understand when they are showing subordination to us.
For example, if you call your dog in with an angry attitude, he may do
certain behaviours in response to your aggressive behaviour. Some of these
actions can be misunderstood as disobedience. For example, he may slow his
motions, or he may come to you in an arc instead of a bee-line.
One concept that has helped me with training my Griffs is understanding how
canids correct each other. In other words,
first level : using direct eye contact
second level: voice (growl)
third level: physical (bite/mount)
fourth level: all three together (very aggressive - kill mode if both are
in this level)
Many people who are not familiar with this sequence will progress
immediately to a fourth level correction (direct eye contact and a scruff
shake combined with a loud "RRRRR" or "NO!") If you use all three
together, you do not give your puppy or dog the impression that you are a
good and fair leader, as any "normal" well balanced packleader go through
the sequence (sometimes in a second, but still in sequence).
Shannon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.inch.com/~dogs/twelvetips.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
With my housedog retrievers I make mealtime a time to reinforce leadership. I
always make the dog heal at my side as I would were I sending it for a mark (seen
retrieve) as I place its bowl of food on the floor. Sometimes I step away and have
the dog follow at heel and come back to that position (or even stop with the dog
facing away from the food.) Only after the dog has properly performed the heeling
ritual do I release it ("OK") to eat.
Hope some of this helps.
Jere
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soniaskinner1
SH
Posts:44
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| 07/16/2009 8:08 AM |
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Jere, Drift was three at the end of March. Thank you for the ideas or
recalling everywhere, he is usually very good at this now unless he sees
another dog! However, when we are amongst a pile of gundogs, he ignores
them completely! I understand your idea that this becomes a ritual,(the
recalling) that is why I say that when he doesn't recall with the dummy,
then he is being disobedient as he knows well what to do.
Since the sheep bucket, he has gradually improved but still played up,
however at our training session on Tuesday the last retrieve we did he did
bring to hand. Last night in class, I put a long line on him, didn't hold
it at all, just let it drag behind him and he was 100% perfect! I have
become stronger lately and I think he is now seeing me as the pack leader.
Today we went for a lesson at his breeder's, it was a shame that these
lessons all came together in three days, but Kevin had suggested I join in
with other people who were coming for a lesson because of my problem in a
group, there was a marked improvement and the first four retrieves were
perfect. He then decided to take it to the breeder who he adores, but did
come away from her quicker than he has before. So overall I think there is
light at the end of the tunnel.
See below......
>
> When you send him for a retrieve he takes that as a release of your control
> and he
> is doing as he pleases on the way in. Give your recall command at the instant
> he
> begins to dip his head to pick the bumper. You assume control by doing so.
> He
> must finish the retrieve according to your trained ritual after that (and you
> must
> insist and insure he does). If he does not, you must make him do so.
> Silently
> walk him down - just walk to him, if he flees, follow him - keep following
> until
> you can physically control him (if he is dragging a lead this will be easier).
> Lead
> him to the spot he was to return to and then do what you usually do to have
> him
> finish the retrieve "properly." Then, maybe give him another chance, but
> maybe
> just put him up in the car/truck/crate and take him home. Fun is over for the
> day.
Ah, I see, yes he takes the retrieve as a release of my control, and I will
certainly do as you suggest, thank you.
Sonia
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soniaskinner1
SH
Posts:44
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| 07/16/2009 8:08 AM |
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| Jere, thank you very much fore sending the posts re Leadership, I do
implement a lot of them already, but there were some I don't and I found the
posts very interesting.
It is only recently I have felt in control of Drift, he was/is a very
excitable and physically strong dog and at times I felt helpless. He was
crying out for a strong pack leader and now with experience of having a dog
like him, I am beginning to be one. I think also going to the class where I
had to do everything EXACTLY as the trainer said, froze me into inactivity
for fear of doing it wrong, I now have different trainer and am gaining
confidence in my own handling ability, though confess to still feeling
helpless when he wouldn't return with dummy in class.
He is great with his food bowel, has always sat and has always waited for
permission to eat, if I am feeding the other dogs and forget to give him
permission, he still waits! I can also recall him from his food, and heel
him to it under control.
I found the posts very interesting and will implement a couple of the things
I haven't done.
Thank you for you input which I appreciate.
Sonia
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rospigan
MH
Posts:372
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| 07/27/2009 6:58 AM |
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Re: [working-gundog] Dog problems
Nice to see that Sonia is making progress with her hammerhead
 ) Most of the time with dogs the only psychology you need is to be consistent
in your demands and do what it takes to tell the dog that you intend to stay
concistent.
I just came back from work and feel a bit dizzy from
all the work. We had a record of 6984 passangers in one day and when I
drove home from the harbour this morning there was about 500 cars in a row
wanting go with us but we can only take around 250 - 260. This week is the
last one of the Swedish vacationes and everybody are hysterical discovering the
summer has almost ended and they have not yet done anything particular. So now
everyone just have to make a trip to some place, no matter at what cost or
effort. When I go back to work after two weeks things have calmed down
considerably.
I have to read the list mails by and by, when the mist has
cleared from my brain. Now I will pack some shotshells and clay pigeons on the
pick-up and when Mauds comes from work we have to do some shooting. Decades ago
I introduced her to clay shooting, now she sometimes shoots better than me.
Yesterday she won her first small sporting clay competition and a week ago she
participated in the Swedish Sporting Championship tournament, shooting
against the best competitioners in Sweden. Well, she was very nervous
shooting in front of such a mass of competitioners and public but still she
managed to avoid the last place!
I also introduced her to photography some 15 years ago.
Today she is without any doubt much better than me.
I still feel that I am better than her in making dogs
obedient but it is probably just a matter of time before she beats me there
also...
Watch out men! The females are conquering our
world!
Torsti
Borta Med Vindens Kennel
www.rospigan.net
"If you pick up a
starving dog and make him prosperous,
he will not bite you; that is the
principal difference
between a dog and a man." /Mark Twain
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: [working-gundog] Dog
problems
Just to say at a great day retriever training
and the dog brought the dummy back each time except the first time when I
found a plastic bucket for sheep food, this was wanged at him and after that
he was so much better!
Sonia
On 11/7/09 19:54, "Sonia
Skinner" <soniaskinner@btinternet.com>
wrote:
Excellent advice Torsti and it will be
done.
Sonia
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soniaskinner1
SH
Posts:44
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| 07/30/2009 7:21 AM |
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Re: [working-gundog] Dog problems
Nice to read you are back on land, it sounded as if you had a very busy time on ship, what a lot of passengers in one day! My next door neighbours are on a cruise around the Baltic.
I expect the clay pigeon shooting you did with Maud helped you to relax and forget all the hard work. You are right Torsti, we women will end up conquering the world, but it will be no world if there aren’t any men in it!
My hammerhead was doing well, retrieving to hand in company, then we did some waterwork and his level of excitement was too high and he started running off with the retrieve again. He had been good in as much as he had ignored the dummy in the water and gone for the blind on the shore, but then was sent into the water onto an island to hunt, which he did well, but it was oh so exciting because water was involved
Last night, full of confidence at a class, so I was so disappointed that he played up again and I had thought I had got it sorted. Hey ho, on with the work..............
Sonia
On 27/7/09 13:41, "Maud & Torsti" wrote:
Nice to see that Sonia is making progress with her hammerhead ) Most of the time with dogs the only psychology you need is to be consistent in your demands and do what it takes to tell the dog that you intend to stay concistent.
I just came back from work and feel a bit dizzy from all the work. We had a record of 6984 passangers in one day and when I drove home from the harbour this morning there was about 500 cars in a row wanting go with us but we can only take around 250 - 260. This week is the last one of the Swedish vacationes and everybody are hysterical discovering the summer has almost ended and they have not yet done anything particular. So now everyone just have to make a trip to some place, no matter at what cost or effort. When I go back to work after two weeks things have calmed down considerably.
I have to read the list mails by and by, when the mist has cleared from my brain. Now I will pack some shotshells and clay pigeons on the pick-up and when Mauds comes from work we have to do some shooting. Decades ago I introduced her to clay shooting, now she sometimes shoots better than me. Yesterday she won her first small sporting clay competition and a week ago she participated in the Swedish Sporting Championship tournament, shooting against the best competitioners in Sweden. Well, she was very nervous shooting in front of such a mass of competitioners and public but still she managed to avoid the last place!
I also introduced her to photography some 15 years ago. Today she is without any doubt much better than me.
I still feel that I am better than her in making dogs obedient but it is probably just a matter of time before she beats me there also...
Watch out men! The females are conquering our world!
Torsti
Borta Med Vindens Kennel
www.rospigan.net
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,
he will not bite you; that is the principal difference
between a dog and a man." /Mark Twain
----- Original Message -----
From: Sonia Skinner
To: working-gundog@web.whc.net
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: [working-gundog] Dog problems
Just to say at a great day retriever training and the dog brought the dummy back each time except the first time when I found a plastic bucket for sheep food, this was wanged at him and after that he was so much better!
Sonia
On 11/7/09 19:54, "Sonia Skinner" wrote:
Excellent advice Torsti and it will be done.
Sonia
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rospigan
MH
Posts:372
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| 07/30/2009 12:02 PM |
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Re: [working-gundog] Dog problems
>>>Last night, full of confidence at a class, so I
was so disappointed that he played up again and I had thought I had got it
sorted. Hey ho, on with the
work..............
Sonia>>>
The longer he's been playing with you, the longer it takes to
cure him - and you have to stay consistent and firm all the time, every minute,
every second, every fraction of a second! BE
PREPARED!
Briz worked as a search dog last night. One of those Swedish
shortlegged hare/deer hounds had decided that the hunting season had started
already and vanished on Tuesday. Wednesday night a group of hunters gathered,
among them Maud and Briz, to try to search a certain forest area. There was
some fear that the young, stupid dog might have run into wild boar and got
killed by them. The group had not found the dog after 3 hours search,
it was dark night then. Briz had found a capercailzie and was happy with that
(better that a stupid hare-hound) and Maud found some chantarelles that I
am frying right now. Today the dog owners family searched another area and found
the dog - chasing roe-deer in full speed!
The hare/deer hounds we have here, the Swedish as well as the
French breeds, are, in my personal opinion, in no possession of a brain, but
they have been for decades or even centuries bred for one single purpose
only - Chase That Game!
Co-operation, will to please, pack-sense and trainability
are conceptions that are unknown to them....and their breeders.
I (Claudius! )) ), on the other hand, have spent
a lot of money the last few days. All of those greenbacks have gone to purposes
that benefits hunting. New off-road tires, a second hand full height
refrigerator to hang deer and other game in, a clearing saw to keep our private
clay shooting range open, a new, bigger air compressor to my workshop and then
some more gadgets that are more or less needed for the shooting man. These costs
will also to a great part be written off on the fire-wood account. The
writing-off time will be 10 - 15 years except for the tires that may last 4
years. So now I can again fall to sleep in a state of inscrutable stinginess for the decade to come. I have what I need
except clothes on my body but that is something Maud use to take care of. I
seldom have to walk around totally naked although it has happened on a few
rare occasions )
What remains to be done is to check and if necessary fix my and Mauds rifles so that
they shoot straight at one distance or another. I have not decided what bullets
and loads to use this year. I tend to be a nerd with rifles and can never decide
for sure until the last minute. However the last minute is next week since the
season starts when I am at work (I go to work August 9) and I got to have all
the gear ready when I come home for a long leave of 4 weeks at August 27.
As usual, only time knows what happens in the
future.
Torsti
Borta Med Vindens Kennel
www.rospigan.net
"If you pick up a
starving dog and make him prosperous,
he will not bite you; that is the
principal difference
between a dog and a man." /Mark Twain
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soniaskinner1
SH
Posts:44
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| 07/31/2009 12:59 PM |
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Re: [working-gundog] Dog problems
The longer he's been playing with you, the longer it takes to cure him - and you have to stay consistent and firm all the time, every minute, every second, every fraction of a second! BE PREPARED!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks Torsti, I realise this and making stirling efforts to make sure I stay on the straight and narrow, but I do know that I slip sometimes. I remember once on a gundog training session that I gave Drift 1/4” and one of the women on the course said “he will have clocked that” meaning he will have seen the weakness and used it. Have had a good training session today with a man who has Springer Spaniels, he was steady and brought the dummy to hand every time.
Thank heaven I don’t have a hare/deer hound
Good to read about your spending spree, have a good winter.
Sonia
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robclayau
JH
Posts:36
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| 08/01/2009 4:47 PM |
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Hi Torsti,
I've had a bit of a spending spree myself recently. I purchased a new
CZ452 .22LR for rabbit hunting. It's actually the first rifle that I've
purchased new, as I've mostly been a shotgun shooter and my other
rifles have been purchased secondhand, so that's quite exciting. I've
also purchased a "Wolf Eyes Tactical Torch" (http://wolfeyes.com.au/),
basically a small, incredibly bright torch that can be mounted either
on top of the scope or under the barrel and used for solo spotlighting
(lamping) rabbits. It cost $250 (including spare battery and gun
mounts), which I consider an extraordinary amount for money for a
torch, but it is an excellent product.
After cleaning and sighting in the rifle, I've been rabbit hunting
regularly the last couple of weeks. I hunt extensive pine forest areas
between home and work, which is convenient as I can hunt for an hour or
two after work on the way home. The area is thick with blackberries and
other brambles and holds good numbers of rabbits, however it is public
land so these rabbits are hunted regularly and hence are "pretty
twitchy", they've played this game before and learned fast. It's
enjoyable and challenging hunting, so far the best I've done is 6
rabbits, which isn't a lot by Australian standards, I average 1 or 2
and come home with nothing a 1/3 of the time. I've also got 1 fox,
which was absorbed in a scent it was following and wandered out onto
the path in front of me.
It's interesting to study the behavior of the rabbits and try to relate
that to the weather and other factors. As I say, generally the rabbits
are very twitchy and at times it can be difficult to get anywhere near
them. However, the other afternoon there were dozens and dozens of
rabbits out and they were sitting for a lot longer the normal. This was
a dry and warm(ish) afternoon, following a few wet cold days. It seemed
to me the rabbits were out gorging themselves, enjoying the dry warmer
weather and reluctant to flee, a sharp contrast to their normal
behavior.
Interesting how something so simple as hunting some rabbits can lead
you in so many other areas. I'm missing shots that I should be making,
so naturally I think about going to the local rifle range to learn more
about the art of rifle shooting. Then that leads to the possibility of
various competitions, I'm not that interested in the bench rest type of
paper target shooting, but the free standing metallic silhouette
shooting looks like it could be fun and excellent practice for hunting.
Then there is the question of a rabbit dog. Should I get a spaniel to
help work these rabbits. I've had a spaniel before, I very much enjoy
the breed and miss hunting with them, but I already have two bird dogs
and third dog it really one too many for our lifestyle. I think a good
spaniel would be very handy on these rabbits, it's a rocky area and
most of the rabbits are living in dense brambles rather than
underground burrows, so a dog that will work punishing cover could be a
real asset.
Ahh, the simple pleasures of a hunter, who'd have it any other way!!
Rob
Maud & Torsti wrote:
I (Claudius! )) ), on the other hand, have spent a
lot of money the last few days. All of those greenbacks have gone to
purposes that benefits hunting. New off-road tires, a second hand full
height refrigerator to hang deer and other game in, a clearing saw to
keep our private clay shooting range open, a new, bigger air compressor
to my workshop and then some more gadgets that are more or less needed
for the shooting man. These costs will also to a great part be written
off on the fire-wood account. The writing-off time will be 10 - 15
years except for the tires that may last 4 years. So now I can again
fall to sleep in a state of inscrutable
stinginess for the decade to come. I
have what I need except clothes on my body but that is something Maud
use to take care of. I seldom have to walk around totally naked
although it has happened on a few rare occasions )
As usual, only time knows what happens in the
future.
Torsti
Borta Med Vindens Kennel
www.rospigan.net
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,
he will not bite you; that is the principal difference
between a dog and a man." /Mark Twain
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rospigan
MH
Posts:372
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| 08/02/2009 10:48 AM |
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>>>Interesting how something so simple
as hunting some rabbits can lead you in so many other areas. I'm missing shots
that I should be making, so naturally I think about going to the local rifle
range to learn more about the art of rifle shooting. Then that leads to the
possibility of various competitions, I'm not that interested in the bench rest
type of paper target shooting, but the free standing metallic silhouette
shooting looks like it could be fun and excellent practice for hunting. Then
there is the question of a rabbit dog. Should I get a spaniel to help work these
rabbits. I've had a spaniel before, I very much enjoy the breed and miss hunting
with them, but I already have two bird dogs and third dog it really one too many
for our lifestyle. I think a good spaniel would be very handy on these rabbits,
it's a rocky area and most of the rabbits are living in dense brambles rather
than underground burrows, so a dog that will work punishing cover could be a
real asset.
Ahh, the simple pleasures of a hunter, who'd have it any
other way!!
Rob>>>>
I envy everyone who has easy acces to simple
shooting of eatable small game! We have the roe-deer on our backyard but when
you have chewed your way through 150 of them you will not give them the credit
they deserve. I would like to have some pigeon and rabbit shooting close to
where we live. What we have is the damn German field hare that you have to boil
for 5 - 6 hours before it allows you to eat it without loosing your teeth! I
have a great regard for hunting with a spaniel, it is without doubt much
more fun that most other ways of getting meat on the table.
Talking about competition shooting there was this
Swedish championship in free pistol 50 meters today. Ragnar Skanåker, 75 years
old and 20 times Swedish champion got the silver medal and shot the best final
round. He has also won the Olympics a number of times when he was younger. He is
a rather remarkable man who totally seems to lack nerves. So it is never too
late to go to the shooting range it seems and in the end it brings more meat to
the table. Even the dog who has a master who shoots well is much more happy than
the one who has a master who cant shoot. So it is our duty, for the sake of our
dogs well-fare, to shoot well )
Torsti.
Borta Med Vindens Kennel www.rospigan.net "If you pick up a
starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the
principal difference between a dog and a man." /Mark Twain
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