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rospigan

MH
Posts:372

03/13/2009 12:49 PM
There was this scientific telly-program tonight. This time it was about the unique composition of DNA that dogs have. This unique composition of DNA makes them so very plastic - they can by selective breeding be altered very rapidly to for example do different type of work for us humans. The dog has other unique genetically related features, just like Cj pointed out in his "last wish", if I am allowed to say so. The major part of the program was from a university in Budapest..........I am sure we mentioned the university in last autumns dictions. Now I could see that they had done a lot of the research Cj asked for, at the university. They had in a similar way raised and fostered and domesticated dogs and wild wolfs - they had given them exactly the same social contact with humans and also otherwise treated them very similarly. Still the differences that Cj wrote about, like wolf can not seek help from humans, was there. Dogs can and do...why? Dogs treat humans in a different way than other dogs...why? And so on.. They also tested humans "natural", "inherited", "genetical" ability to understand dogs. Untrained humans can with great accuracy for example distinguish between the different barks dog have. The only barks wolfs have means basically "Fuck of" from my food/territory/bitch or something like that". Wolf do not have barks they can use to communicate with humans like dogs have. It seems like what Cj wrote in his last letters was correct word by word, may be he had seen this program earlier than me? Anyway the subject is very interesting at least to me. Our closest genetic relative might be the ape but what have we in our development towards a modern society gained from him? The help from our not so close relative, the dog, has been completely decisive for the success of the human race, as was the horse for a period. Torsti Borta Med Vindens Kennel www.rospigan.net "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man." /Mark Twain

azwhitemtndogs3 User is Offline

Posts:16

03/13/2009 7:29 PM

Isn't there a difference between being domesticate and being wild?

Phyllis, 10 wonderful grandchildren and Ch. RB, Flash!, Katie in Mesa, Az, USA

--- On Fri, 3/13/09, Maud & Torsti wrote:

From: Maud & Torsti
Subject: [working-gundog] The evolution of man and dog together
To: working-gundog@web.whc.net
Date: Friday, March 13, 2009, 12:35 PM

There was this scientific telly-program tonight. This time it was about the unique composition of DNA that dogs have. This unique composition of DNA makes them so very plastic - they can by selective breeding be altered very rapidly to for example do different type of work for us humans. The dog has other unique genetically related features, just like Cj pointed out in his "last wish", if I am allowed to say so.

The major part of the program was from a university in Budapest..........I am sure we mentioned the university in last autumns dictions. Now I could see that they had done a lot of the research Cj asked for, at the university. They had in a similar way raised and fostered and domesticated dogs and wild wolfs - they had given them exactly the same social contact with humans and also otherwise treated them very similarly.

Still the differences that Cj wrote about, like wolf can not seek help from humans, was there. Dogs can and do...why? Dogs treat humans in a different way than other dogs...why? And so on..

They also tested humans "natural", "inherited", "genetical" ability to understand dogs. Untrained humans can with great accuracy for example distinguish between the different barks dog have. The only barks wolfs have means basically "Fuck of" from my food/territory/bitch or something like that". Wolf do not have barks they can use to communicate with humans like dogs have.

It seems like what Cj wrote in his last letters was correct word by word, may be he had seen this program earlier than me?

Anyway the subject is very interesting at least to me. Our closest genetic relative might be the ape but what have we in our development towards a modern society gained from him?

The help from our not so close relative, the dog, has been completely decisive for the success of the human race, as was the horse for a period.

Torsti

Borta Med Vindens Kennel
www.rospigan.net
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous,
he will not bite you; that is the principal difference
between a dog and a man." /Mark Twain

jmurr

MH
Posts:158

03/13/2009 11:49 PM
I haven't seen this program, I'd like to, so I can't be 100% sure. Much work has been done in the US on attempts to socialize wolves to humans and other stuff. I believe I've reported here on some of it before. At any rate, I recommend again the book Mary Carson recommended "Dogs, A new understanding ... " by Ray and Lorna Coppinger. Part can be read online at Amazon.com Phyllis ??? Don't you know some "wolf men?" Jere > There was this scientific telly-program tonight. This time it was about the unique > composition of DNA that dogs have. This unique composition of DNA makes them so > very plastic - they can by selective breeding be altered very rapidly to for > example do different type of work for us humans. The dog has other unique > genetically related features, just like Cj pointed out in his "last wish", if I am > allowed to say so. > > The major part of the program was from a university in Budapest..........I am sure > we mentioned the university in last autumns dictions. Now I could see that they had > done a lot of the research Cj asked for, at the university. They had in a similar > way raised and fostered and domesticated dogs and wild wolfs - they had given them > exactly the same social contact with humans and also otherwise treated them very > similarly. > > Still the differences that Cj wrote about, like wolf can not seek help from humans, > was there. Dogs can and do...why? Dogs treat humans in a different way than other > dogs...why? And so on.. > > They also tested humans "natural", "inherited", "genetical" ability to understand > dogs. Untrained humans can with great accuracy for example distinguish between the > different barks dog have. The only barks wolfs have means basically "Fuck of" from > my food/territory/bitch or something like that". Wolf do not have barks they can > use to communicate with humans like dogs have. > > It seems like what Cj wrote in his last letters was correct word by word, may be he > had seen this program earlier than me? > > Anyway the subject is very interesting at least to me. Our closest genetic relative > might be the ape but what have we in our development towards a modern society > gained from him? > > The help from our not so close relative, the dog, has been completely decisive for > the success of the human race, as was the horse for a period. > > > Torsti > > Borta Med Vindens Kennel > www.rospigan.net > "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, > he will not bite you; that is the principal difference > between a dog and a man." /Mark Twain >

rospigan

MH
Posts:372

03/15/2009 11:00 AM
>>>I haven't seen this program, I'd like to, so I can't be 100% sure. Much work has been done in the US on attempts to socialize wolves to humans and other stuff. I believe I've reported here on some of it before. At any rate, I recommend again the book Mary Carson recommended "Dogs, A new understanding ... " by Ray and Lorna Coppinger. Part can be read online at Amazon.com Phyllis ??? Don't you know some "wolf men?" Jere>>> I had to order the book after reading a few pages on the web. From Springer on to Foxy and Briz we have encouraged our dogs to communicate with us and to respond to their communication and they sure did and do. We have taken for granted that it is a learned behaviour but maybe it is not after all, but a genetic accomplishment. We are and have been looking at dogs from about the same angle for a rather long time, more than a 150 years, when the British officer Hutchinson came up with a way of thinking that is about the same that we have today. After his "invention" the dogs looked "different" to us, or at least to those who lived then. If we can find still another angle to look at dogs, something no-one has not thought of so far, then they might perhaps shine even brighter for us. We can only imagine the view on dogs that folks had 10 000 or 30 000 years ago. Now it seems that once again a new look upon dogs is just starting to form and this happens in our own lifetime, a rare occasion in the history of the domesticated dog. Torsti Borta Med Vindens Kennel www.rospigan.net "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man." /Mark Twain

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