Welcome to

          shorthairs.net

  Login  Register Tuesday, May 21, 2013     
Subject: [working-gundog] Autumn is here.
Prev Next
You are not authorized to post a reply.

Author Messages
rospiganUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:372


10/13/2007 11:08 AM  
Re: [working-gundog] International confusion.
Leaves are falling from the trees, there is frost at night and we have got a shower of wet snow. Its been a hard wind from the north most time of week. I tried to participate in our yearly moose hunt in the village but due to recovery from pneumonia I felt after two hours in the first morning that I am a very stupid man unless I go back home without delay.
 
Maud has come to the GSM coverage again. She has a problem with the road condition. She has summer wheels on her car and there is a great risk for black ice on the road. Summer wheels and black ice are a deadly combination. Today she crossed the border from Norway to Sweden and stayes this night at some friends place. The wind will turn to south tonight and tomorrow will be much warmer thereby eliminating any risk for black ice. Then she can speed home the last 550 kms at 100 miles per hour, speed cops permitting....
 
Dame Foxy has been the best dog during this adventure. Due to her age she moved slower than the younger dogs and hence got scent of the very nervous, white birds much earlier than the young dogs racing with the wind. I guess a bunch of those Italian Braccos, those that search trotting,  could have been the best dogs under those conditiones.
 
Torsti
Borta Med Vindens Kennel
"Ask not what your dog can do for you.
Ask what you can do for your dog."
www.rospigan.net
soniaskinnerUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:98


10/14/2007 2:49 PM  
Re: [working-gundog] Autumn is here.
Torsti

Good to read your news.  We haven’t had any winter yet, it is far too warm and seems unnatural.  Sorry you had to give up the Moose hunt after a while.  I thought of you the other day when I read that a moose hunter in Sweden had been killed by a bear.

Hope Maud arrived home safely and didn’t skid in!  Foxy sounded as if she did a good job and I bet she enjoyed herself.

We now can watch Cesar Milan on TV.  He seems impressive, changing the dogs intent and emotional status to a more relaxed animal.

Sonia


rospiganUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:372


10/14/2007 3:14 PM  
Re: [working-gundog] Autumn is here.
Hi Sonia!
 
We do not have bears on our island, that was much farther north. By the way today two moose hunters were badly injured by another bear that attacked them. They managed to creep back to their car and call for help. A chopper took them to a hospital and as far as i can understand from the news they will survive. Reports in the media most often are very confusing, since the reportes have no idea about what they are actually reporting about....
 
Maud is safely back home and after a duck dinner I can hear that she and the dogs are snoring. They might be tired :-)))
 
I have been to Ceasars website and he is impressive, depending of what "level of knowledge about dogs" you observe him and his knowledge from.
 
However I have noticed that good leadership produces calm dogs without help from shrinks.... The basic thing with dogs is that they are so simple so they cant be threated to any greater extent by shrinks. When people mess up dogs by making them as complicated as humans, then a shrink might help to some extent but, not by training the dog but by training its screwed up owner. Thats what they make their dollars from. To help the customer to handle the dog a bit differently without mentioning the politically incorrect word "leadership".
 
Torsti
Borta Med Vindens Kennel
"Ask not what your dog can do for you.
Ask what you can do for your dog."
www.rospigan.net
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: [working-gundog] Autumn is here.


Torsti

Good to read your news.  We haven’t had any winter yet, it is far too warm and seems unnatural.  Sorry you had to give up the Moose hunt after a while.  I thought of you the other day when I read that a moose hunter in Sweden had been killed by a bear.

Hope Maud arrived home safely and didn’t skid in!  Foxy sounded as if she did a good job and I bet she enjoyed herself.

We now can watch Cesar Milan on TV.  He seems impressive, changing the dogs intent and emotional status to a more relaxed animal.

Sonia


azwhitemtndogs3User is Offline


Posts:16


10/14/2007 7:48 PM  
I, too, like Cesar.  What is all the hype about him?  There are so many people who either like him or don't???  Do you know why?

Sonia Skinner wrote:

Torsti

Good to read your news.  We haven’t had any winter yet, it is far too warm and seems unnatural.  Sorry you had to give up the Moose hunt after a while.  I thought of you the other day when I read that a moose hunter in Sweden had been killed by a bear.

Hope Maud arrived home safely and didn’t skid in!  Foxy sounded as if she did a good job and I bet she enjoyed herself.

We now can watch Cesar Milan on TV.  He seems impressive, changing the dogs intent and emotional status to a more relaxed animal.

Sonia





Phyllis @ Mesa, AZ
soniaskinnerUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:98


10/15/2007 7:47 AM  
Re: [working-gundog] Autumn is here.

I, too, like Cesar.  What is all the hype about him?  There are so many people who either like him or don't???  Do you know why?


No I don’t know why Phyllis, perhaps some of the others have ideas.  He seems to advocate leadership and keeping things simple which appears to get excellent results.

Sonia

cwaltUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:180


10/15/2007 9:23 AM  
> I, too, like Cesar. What is all the hype about him? There are so many > people > who either like him or don't??? Do you know why? > Sonia Cesar's primary involvement with dogs is with the control and management of the animals rather than training them for specific tasks. Those who are sometimes baffled by control/management issues are entranced by his control; those who are involved with more complex training issues and don't have control problems are less impressed. The variations in appreciation of Milan's talents depend primarily on the status of the trainers viewing his show. The thing is that we all can learn from watching him, not so much for what he says he's doing but for his control through his body language. Cj
lbmasonUser is Offline


Posts:1


10/15/2007 10:10 AM  
One of the main lessons that Cesar teaches is that many problems may be solved by putting a collar and leash on the dog. Best... Larry Mason, Cinebar, WA Cj wrote: > Cesar's primary involvement with dogs is with the control and > management of the animals rather than training them for specific > tasks. Those who are sometimes baffled by control/management issues > are entranced by his control; those who are involved with more complex > training issues and don't have control problems are less impressed. > The variations in appreciation of Milan's talents depend primarily on > the status of the trainers viewing his show. The thing is that we all > can learn from watching him, not so much for what he says he's doing > but for his control through his body language. > Cj > >
cwaltUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:180


10/16/2007 8:08 AM  
> One of the main lessons that Cesar teaches is that many problems may be > solved by putting a collar and leash on the dog. > > Best... Larry Mason, Cinebar, WA One of the things that we all appreciate is the deference of the dog that is initiated by walking at heel. Milan has made a virtue of walking the dog on lead in most of his television problem solving exercises and the heeling is the actual spatial relationship that demands the dog's deference. Nothing gives you more control than a variety of heeling exercises and that's Milan's secret for controlling dogs. You will no doubt notice how often he moves from hand gestures that distract to walking on lead exercises that establish the dog's social status in a way that the dog completely understands. It isn't enough that he demands deference by heeling the dog, he teaches his clients to walk the dog at heel. No matter what Cesar says about what he and the clients are doing the movement of the dog in accepting the heeling position is the body language of submission. With dogs, as with humans, the social gestures engender the associated social relationships. The absolute requirement of canine deference in any control situation is markedly enhanced by heeling and off-lead heeling for the human is the most important polishing component for social control. Heeling, believe it or not, is a primary treatment for lack of steadiness on birds and yields a cooperative search in the hunt. The dog walks ahead of you to ask who is in charge, when you bring the dog back to the heeling position you are asserting control in a way that is understood by the dog. Whenever the dog's body language "asks a question" you must be ready with the correct answer. Cj
rospiganUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:372


10/17/2007 2:05 AM  
Re: [working-gundog] Autumn is here.
Sonia wrote:
>>I, too, like Cesar.  What is all the hype about him?  There are so many people who either like him or don't???  Do you know why?>>>
 
The hype, for my personal part, is about the lack of an beginning and an end. It is of course good to teach folks about how sensible dogs are to body language and how you can affect and control them with it. I use body language now and then, most every day indeed, in order to calm down or wind up a dog or for whatever purpose.
 
However, to me it is also important to try to teach a puppy to neglect most of my and other folks body language. Why? Because we humans usually use more body language than any "wild and untamed" dog would be able to take. Hence I believe that social training is very important from a very early age, in fact as soon as the puppy has got all the inoculations needed for it to be taken out in the society. Now it can meet new people and new environments and by and by learn than most of our human peculiar behaviour can be neglected, and at the end, as a young dog when work training starts, it also can neglect most of my own peculiar behaviour except in certain situations when I particularly address the dog!
 
If I for example have two dogs, and I have at some occasion to use rough language to get one of them in order, I do want the other dog to understand that the bashing does not concern it. In this situation there will still be an element that I can do nothing about: The dog that is not concerned about the bashing will still see that I am a dominant leader since I can correct the other dog that powerfully and it will remember this. Still, since it has learned to neglect some of my body language, it will not be sorry without guilt!
 
This work if I have been very consistent in the training and the dogs are not too soft. If they are soft I still have to be very cautious when correcting one dog and the other one is nearby.
 
Anyway, for me it all boils down to one single issue: All the hype the shrinks do is about repair work when puppy training has been neglected. All the hype I do at the obedience classes is also repair work of a dog that has not been correctly raised from puppyhood. The difference is that with my classes the aim is to repair this dog and give the owner an insight that with the next dog he or she must start much earlier. The aim should be that I will not be needed to bring the next dog into order!
 
I am in fact so tired of all this repair work so I am thinking of stopping to hold "repair classes" of older dogs and instead start to hold puppy classes. The problem here is that people seldom go to any classes before the dog has become a problem! In addition many folks believe in the politically correct message that puppies can not and should not be corrected in any way.
 
Dogs not trained to neglect human body language are a problem. One simple example: I have a few videos from both the British and Swedish spaniel championships. Very often you see how fast and anxiously the handlers grab the bird that the dog has retrieved. They fear that the slightest movement from them will cause the dog to drop the bird. Had they trained their dog to hold the dummy until told not to hold it, no matter if they dance rock and roll for a minute or two before accepting the delivery of the bird to hand, then some of the excitement in running their dog in trials would be left in the in the past and a lot of sweat and heartbeats would be saved!
 
Just have a look at "Torstis corner" at our website, "The Medicine, second part". See how Briz offers me the bird, sitting with her head upwards. I don't have to worry, I don't have to beg for it. She would sit there holding it even if I was so happy so I had to dance a rain-dance before taking it. This is because she has been trained to neglect most of my body language!
 
The way I receive the bird from Foxy is a completely different matter. I enjoy the old warriors self-willed and independent way of working so immensely so I go down in a kneeling position just to entice her to pull my leg even more :-))) Don't take a model of that :-))
 
Torsti
 
Borta Med Vindens Kennel
"Ask not what your dog can do for you.
Ask what you can do for your dog."
www.rospigan.net
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Forums > Mailing Lists > working-gundog > [working-gundog] Autumn is here.



ActiveForums 3.7
 Private Message Count
Minimize
You must be logged in to use this module.
UsersOnline
Membership Membership:
Latest New User Latest: misskristine
New Today New Today: 0
New Yesterday New Yesterday: 1
User Count Overall: 3206

People Online People Online:
Visitors Visitors: 93
Members Members: 0
Total Total: 93

Online Now Online Now:
 Print   
Home  |  Events  |  Blogs  |  Photo Gallery  |  GSP Forum
 Terms Of Use | Privacy Statement | WHC DNN Site 
Copyright 2008-2011 by Rick Petersen