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jmurr

MH
Posts:158

07/04/2007 11:07 AM
Good to have you back, Stu. > OK, I'll bite. .. > Chase->Capture->Kill->Consume (the Four 'C's of Predatorship) > > THEN, the sub-groups of "Chase" become: > > Quarter->Alert->Track/Stalk->(Re-Locate, if necessary)->Launch. I prefer Search -> Locate ... > As a solitary predator, no pause would benefit unless there were > shifting environmental factors such that a 'wait' might offer benefit. This is where you go wrong, unless the pause observed in solitary hunting wild canids is simply part of locate, IMO. It could be in some instances, but in others I think it has relevance to the up-close relationship between the predator and the already located prey. Maybe this is what you refer to in the the last clause of the sentence above? Jere > > So, a 'Point/Lock/Stand' might signal a long selective breeding benefit > from the utility of 'Pack Attack' as opposed to solitary plunder...i.e. > more avenues of prey escape are closed. > > It would seem to me, that this would argue for P/L/S being genetic, > rather than epigentic since this behavior does arise out of very young > animals in my experience, that have no game introduction other than > inutero, and often little of that. > > Stu, Dawn & Hunter West > Founder, Pointing Labradors > "Letting Labs Point the Way!" > Alma Bottom Pointing Labradors > N4758 350th Street, Elmwood, WI 54740 > (715) 639-3900 h&w (715)684-9892 cell > StuWest@AlmaBottom.com www.AlmaBottom.com > > > > > Cj wrote: >>> I've always wondered if "pointing" wasn't a modified form of >>> stalking. The two certainly >>> have a lot of similarities - it's just that a point stops and a stalk >>> continues into an attack or "flush". >>> Jerry >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> I think you are correct. Certainly the intense concentration on the >> prey is typical of cats from ocelots to lions. Pointing in dogs is >> somewhat different in that they can also do it by scent whereas the >> cats' stalking is almost certainly visual. When dogs do a visual >> point they act like cats with respect to intensity. Dogs are like >> lions in that their stalking interacts with other pack members (which >> is not the case with tigers and leopards) but there the similarities >> cease. I have had the opportunity to observe stalking behavior in >> solitary coyotes and foxes and there is a dog-like intensity but these >> animals do not really point when solitary. I have observed a pack >> (family group) of red foxes stalk a small flock of ducks and their >> pack behavior was more doglike with respect to their intensity while >> holding position; like dogs when one fox rushed the ducks the whole >> pack broke and attacked. >> >> Certainly pointing in bird dogs is an exaggerated and very intense >> interaction between predator and prey that has many features of >> stalking. In a normal pack context pointing dogs do not finish the >> stalk but hold it until the pack leader (human or canine) signals what >> to do. When there is a social breakdown in the pack relationship >> pointing dogs will hold position as part of stalking but will >> inevitably attack the prey without the social control imposed by the >> pack. In this sense backing and stealing points are variable social >> components of a stalking behavior. In general I would classify >> stalking and pointing as "the same thing, only different." >> >> Cj >> >> >> To unsubscribe send email to working-gundog-request@web.whc.net with >> message text of UNSUBSCRIBE. >> Visit the shorthairs.net message board, at www.shorthairs.net (click >> the Message Board link) >> >> > > > To unsubscribe send email to working-gundog-request@web.whc.net with message text > of UNSUBSCRIBE. > > Visit the shorthairs.net message board, at www.shorthairs.net (click the Message > Board link) > >

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