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Subject: [working-gundog] Observationes
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rospiganUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:372


11/11/2008 1:39 AM  
I have to write this before I go north and forget about the whole thing. Briz and Maud made well in the British team that beat the German team and the Brittany team in the Birddog match. When they came home in the evening I noticed how very unusually happy, pleased, proud, jolly (choose the word/s you prefer) Briz was. We know that our dogs catch our mood and of course Maud was happy too, but I believe that it is not the entire truth, since it was not the first time Maud had been very pleased with Briz.
 
I believe that Briz caught the very pleased spirit of the entire team that most likely had been excited and happy from the moment on the trial day when they started to understand that they will win the competition. Hence she had been subjected to a very positive atmosphere during many hours and together with the teams other dogs had felt that they were part of something very important. So I guess that here we have something that we could remember in our everyday life with our dogs.
 
Maud made an other observation during the artificial retrieve test that day. Cold birds were hidden and shots were fired and one by one the dogs had to find and fetch a number of the birds. While waiting for their turn the German breeds and the Brittany's were eagerly whining and barking and then when their turn came they worked with joy and determination in this artificial situation.
 
The British breeds however just sat there and looked bored and were totally un-interested by the artificial test and probably thought that the other breeds were stupid when they could not see that this is not hunting. The British breeds worked by obedience only and showed no enthusiasm whatso ever for the task. On the field the same dogs made nice retrieves on freshly shot game and usually they are difficult to prevent from retrieving on fall.
 
I think this explains the difference between the versatile and the setters (I do not know the pointer well enough to include it). The setter can only be excited by real hunting, they are nothing else but pure gundogs and generally speaking they have no interest in any other work. This was also the aim when they were created. They did not even have to fetch the game, only to find it and point it and flush it and be beautiful with speed and style and stamina. 
 
Therefore I am also more and more convinced that we are wrong here in Sweden when we demand our setters to fetch cold game in a trial, should the gun miss the flushed bird or not be able to shoot.  It simply is not natural to demand a setter to do something it is not bred to understand. In Norway they understand the setters(and pointers) better. In trials they shoot with a starting pistol just to make sure the dog is steady to gunfire but they never shoot the bird. Therefore they never come into an artificial situation when they have to test the dog on cold game. And therefore they never put out excellent gundogs just because the dogs do not understand to do something that never happens in a real hunting situation!
 
(In Sweden a dog that do not retrieve cold game is put out of the trial, no matter how good it is otherwise)
 
Torsti
Borta Med Vindens Kennel
www.rospigan.net
 
"Merciful God the Almighty!
Deprive me  my common sense
so that I can at least to some extent
accomplish my commitments as a
citizen of the European Union!."
mcottonUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:87


11/12/2008 1:33 AM  
Perhaps the setters only do what they want to do?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 9:25 PM
Subject: [working-gundog] Observationes

I have to write this before I go north and forget about the whole thing. Briz and Maud made well in the British team that beat the German team and the Brittany team in the Birddog match. When they came home in the evening I noticed how very unusually happy, pleased, proud, jolly (choose the word/s you prefer) Briz was. We know that our dogs catch our mood and of course Maud was happy too, but I believe that it is not the entire truth, since it was not the first time Maud had been very pleased with Briz.
 
I believe that Briz caught the very pleased spirit of the entire team that most likely had been excited and happy from the moment on the trial day when they started to understand that they will win the competition. Hence she had been subjected to a very positive atmosphere during many hours and together with the teams other dogs had felt that they were part of something very important. So I guess that here we have something that we could remember in our everyday life with our dogs.
 
Maud made an other observation during the artificial retrieve test that day. Cold birds were hidden and shots were fired and one by one the dogs had to find and fetch a number of the birds. While waiting for their turn the German breeds and the Brittany's were eagerly whining and barking and then when their turn came they worked with joy and determination in this artificial situation.
 
The British breeds however just sat there and looked bored and were totally un-interested by the artificial test and probably thought that the other breeds were stupid when they could not see that this is not hunting. The British breeds worked by obedience only and showed no enthusiasm whatso ever for the task. On the field the same dogs made nice retrieves on freshly shot game and usually they are difficult to prevent from retrieving on fall.
 
I think this explains the difference between the versatile and the setters (I do not know the pointer well enough to include it). The setter can only be excited by real hunting, they are nothing else but pure gundogs and generally speaking they have no interest in any other work. This was also the aim when they were created. They did not even have to fetch the game, only to find it and point it and flush it and be beautiful with speed and style and stamina. 
 
Therefore I am also more and more convinced that we are wrong here in Sweden when we demand our setters to fetch cold game in a trial, should the gun miss the flushed bird or not be able to shoot.  It simply is not natural to demand a setter to do something it is not bred to understand. In Norway they understand the setters(and pointers) better. In trials they shoot with a starting pistol just to make sure the dog is steady to gunfire but they never shoot the bird. Therefore they never come into an artificial situation when they have to test the dog on cold game. And therefore they never put out excellent gundogs just because the dogs do not understand to do something that never happens in a real hunting situation!
 
(In Sweden a dog that do not retrieve cold game is put out of the trial, no matter how good it is otherwise)
 
Torsti
Borta Med Vindens Kennel
www.rospigan.net
 
"Merciful God the Almighty!
Deprive me  my common sense
so that I can at least to some extent
accomplish my commitments as a
citizen of the European Union!."
rospiganUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:372


11/17/2008 4:08 AM  
Marg wrote:
>>>Perhaps the setters only do what they want to do?>>>
 
 
I wish I knew!
 
BTW I was close too come home with a 9 months old Gordon setter bitch. It was soooo beautiful and soooo nice and friendly and it had been shot over already! I fell in love - and it was for sale...
 
Torsti
Borta Med Vindens Kennel
www.rospigan.net
 
"Merciful God the Almighty!
Deprive me  my common sense
so that I can at least to some extent
accomplish my commitments as a
citizen of the European Union!."
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