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Subject: [working-gundog] tracking as a ritual
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cwaltUser is Offline

MH
MH
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07/29/2008 7:13 AM  
I once knew a dog that was started on blood track training with dry bread crusts laid on the piece of deer hide at the end of the track. It wasn't that the dry bread was actually a reward but that it was part of a ritual. Dogs love rituals and will perform the most complicated chained routines to receive an insignificant reward so long as the handler's actions with the dog are ceremonially consistent. My Drahthaars are fairly indifferent to dry dog food and will often eat a bit of kibble and leave the rest in the bowl for the Labradors to eat; but if I palm a couple of these small chunks and ask:"who wants a cookie?" there is an eager dance around me until I give them each their own piece. It's the ritual that becomes important, not the flavor of the reward. Many American dog trainers scorn the use of food rewards in training but they are fantastically useful in building rituals as the basis for chained sequences of events. As Torsti has pointed out the food reward quickly becomes irrelevant to the dog, it's the ceremony that's the important part of the game. The Germans found that out in track training a long time ago hence the use of elaborate and heavy tracking collars and tracking harnesses. The ritualistic gear isn't necessary to control the dog, they're necessary to affirm the ritual game to come. Training is, to all good dogs, a form of introduction to play and all smart dogs like to play. I have noted before that dogs do not make a distinction between work and play the way that humans do... for then it's all a form of play. The wise trainer will make all training an introduction to play a game, it's more productive than negative reinforcement. Cj
rospiganUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:372


07/29/2008 10:51 AM  
>>>The Germans found that out in track
training a long time ago hence the use of elaborate and heavy tracking
collars and tracking harnesses.  The ritualistic gear isn't necessary to
control the dog, they're necessary to affirm the ritual game to come. 
Training is, to all good dogs, a form of introduction to play and all
smart dogs like to play.  I have noted before that dogs do not make a
distinction between work and play the way that humans do...  for then
it's all a form of play.  The wise trainer will make all training an
introduction to play a game, it's more productive than negative
reinforcement.

Cj>>>

In Sweden I believe the most important tracking ritual is perhaps the start of the track, the way we see things. Let me explain with an example:
 
I shoot at a deer (moose/boar/bear/fox) that runs away after the shot. I may see many things already from the games shot reaction, if it most likely is a heart, liver, lung or some peripheral hit. If it is dusk I may not see anything of the games reaction since I am blinded by the muzzle flash. Whatever I must memorise the place of the shot as carefully as possible.
 
Then I go to the car and drive home slowly since I want one full hour to pass before I am back with the dog. I want to give the game peace to lay down and get stiff, unless it is dead already, as they usually are. If stressed they can keep going for a long time.
 
If the dog is experienced it will immediately when I come home know from my excitement and behaviour what will follow.
 
When we come back to the battle field the dog will heel until we are close to the place of the shot. Then I ask it to sit and I put on the tracking harness and attach a long line to it. I will demand it to stay in the sitting position when I go to the place of the shot to investigate it, looking for blood, pieces of bone, colour of the blood, small pieces of lungs or liver and whatever other clues the tracks can give me. What I do not want to find is larger pieces of bones indicating a hit in a leg. The best thing to find is light, pink blood mixed with air bubbles, indicating a hit in the lung area or lots of red blood indicating a heart shot. You do not want to see dark blood from the liver or smelly blood mixed with stomach contains.
 
Then I go back to the dog, heel it to the precise place of the shot, sit it and after a few seconds move my hand just above the ground over the first blood track and tell it to "track". After a couple of such starts 90 % of the ritual is not needed, dog knows perfectly well anyway. Sometimes I cant find the place of the shot. Then I have to start the dog "in flight" so to say, and it has to find and determine the direction of the track. That is also something that is good to train in advance.
 
Anyway the ritual of walking to heel to the proximity of the start of the track, putting  on the harness, waiting for me and permission to start to work are important at least in the beginning. An experienced dog is like an experienced craftsman and can do many things in sleep but before they get the experience they need the rituals for awhile.
 
Torsti
 
 
Borta Med Vindens Kennel
"Ask not what your dog can do for you.
Ask what you can do for your dog."
www.rospigan.net
cwaltUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:180


07/29/2008 11:22 AM  
> Anyway the ritual of walking to heel to the proximity of the start of the track, putting on the harness, waiting for me and permission to start to work are important at least in the beginning. An experienced dog is like an experienced craftsman and can do many things in sleep but before they get the experience they need the rituals for awhile. > > Torsti > Exactly! One of the interesting things is that we always train with blood from a slaughterhouse and the dog falls into a tracking routine with the blood of domestic animals. When the dog is first faced with a blood track of wild game it becomes very excited. What is the difference between the blood of a wild animal and a domestic animal that causes such a difference in the dog's behaviour? I noticed that you mentioned that Briz was a little relaxed in her first few blood tracks, it would be interesting to see how she reacts to a roe deer blood track. Cj
soniaskinnerUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:98


07/29/2008 1:21 PM  
Cj, I showed the article below to a friend of mine and she was very impressed. She has asked me if you would consider giving permission for it to be printed in our local Wye Valley Retriever newsletter here in England. Sonia > I once knew a dog that was started on blood track training with dry > bread crusts laid on the piece of deer hide at the end of the track. It > wasn't that the dry bread was actually a reward but that it was part of > a ritual. Dogs love rituals and will perform the most complicated > chained routines to receive an insignificant reward so long as the > handler's actions with the dog are ceremonially consistent. My > Drahthaars are fairly indifferent to dry dog food and will often eat a > bit of kibble and leave the rest in the bowl for the Labradors to eat; > but if I palm a couple of these small chunks and ask:"who wants a > cookie?" there is an eager dance around me until I give them each their > own piece. It's the ritual that becomes important, not the flavor of > the reward. > > Many American dog trainers scorn the use of food rewards in training but > they are fantastically useful in building rituals as the basis for > chained sequences of events. As Torsti has pointed out the food reward > quickly becomes irrelevant to the dog, it's the ceremony that's the > important part of the game. The Germans found that out in track > training a long time ago hence the use of elaborate and heavy tracking > collars and tracking harnesses. The ritualistic gear isn't necessary to > control the dog, they're necessary to affirm the ritual game to come. > Training is, to all good dogs, a form of introduction to play and all > smart dogs like to play. I have noted before that dogs do not make a > distinction between work and play the way that humans do... for then > it's all a form of play. The wise trainer will make all training an > introduction to play a game, it's more productive than negative > reinforcement. > > CjN
cwaltUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:180


07/29/2008 3:07 PM  
No problem, go ahead and use it. Cj Sonia Skinner wrote: > Cj, > > I showed the article below to a friend of mine and she was very impressed. > She has asked me if you would consider giving permission for it to be > printed in our local Wye Valley Retriever newsletter here in England. > > Sonia > > >> I once knew a dog that was started on blood track training with dry >> bread crusts laid on the piece of deer hide at the end of the track. It >> wasn't that the dry bread was actually a reward but that it was part of >> a ritual. Dogs love rituals and will perform the most complicated >> chained routines to receive an insignificant reward so long as the >> handler's actions with the dog are ceremonially consistent. My >> Drahthaars are fairly indifferent to dry dog food and will often eat a >> bit of kibble and leave the rest in the bowl for the Labradors to eat; >> but if I palm a couple of these small chunks and ask:"who wants a >> cookie?" there is an eager dance around me until I give them each their >> own piece. It's the ritual that becomes important, not the flavor of >> the reward. >> >> Many American dog trainers scorn the use of food rewards in training but >> they are fantastically useful in building rituals as the basis for >> chained sequences of events. As Torsti has pointed out the food reward >> quickly becomes irrelevant to the dog, it's the ceremony that's the >> important part of the game. The Germans found that out in track >> training a long time ago hence the use of elaborate and heavy tracking >> collars and tracking harnesses. The ritualistic gear isn't necessary to >> control the dog, they're necessary to affirm the ritual game to come. >> Training is, to all good dogs, a form of introduction to play and all >> smart dogs like to play. I have noted before that dogs do not make a >> distinction between work and play the way that humans do... for then >> it's all a form of play. The wise trainer will make all training an >> introduction to play a game, it's more productive than negative >> reinforcement. >> >> CjN >> > > > > >
soniaskinnerUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:98


07/29/2008 3:16 PM  
Thanks cj - much appreciated.\ Sonia
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