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brautgsps
MH
Posts:135
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| 05/24/2012 11:15 AM |
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Ok, the this thread is just telling it
like it is..........Yes, judges put up pro handlers, they solicit assignments,
and even make sure when a semi pro is on the dog, one particular judge asked,
You are showing for someone else, right?? That judge just does not
get another entry and when all he has in the ring are the pros, then he must
choose whose feathers to stroke. Also, we do have judges who put up the good
dogs, regardless of who is showing, If you have a good specimen, the dog will finish,
but it may take longer. I have had gsps since 1968 and finished my first bitch
rather quickly.........It was not as bad back then..........BUT.............the
judges would very rarely put up a bitch for the breed at least that is not the
case today. Some judges just don't bother to study the standard. My
usual course of action is if the judge is rude.........never enter again, if he
gives me a good look and I place, I try again, Occasionally, they get three
strikes.........We must remember, we are paying for their opinion, we might
like it and then again, we may not/
Barbara
From:
gsp-l-request@shorthairs.net [mailto:gsp-l-request@shorthairs.net] On Behalf Of JJTAMT@aol.com
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 9:59
PM
To: ersonName w:st="on">gsp-l@shorthairs.netersonName>
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] Re: [gsp-l]
owner handler judging
Of course we must keep in mind that there
are any number of participants in the world of showing dogs that do, in fact,
play the game straight and these folks are Pro handlers, owner handlers, judges
and any other combination you choose to think of. The problem is that if you
expose those that don't play the game on the up and up all to often you are the
one that suffers. That's when you are told, "if you don't like the way the
game is played then don't play the game". I love the dogs, most of the
people and going to and being involved in the show world. The satisfaction is
coming out on top without taking part in the nonsense that we all know is going
on.
John
a message dated 4/6/2012 9:21:46 P.M. Eastern
Daylight Time, wyndbournegsp@aol.com writes:
Sadly I have witnessed this too. And now
AKC allows them to solicit assignments.
Sue
-----Original
Message-----
From: Carol Cronk
To: gsp-l <ersonName w:st="on">gsp-l@shorthairs.netersonName>>
Sent: Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:39 pm
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] Re: [gsp-l] owner handler judging
The real sad thing
is that judges are not just putting up Handlers because they’re Handlers
they will also put up Handlers that belong to a certain club so they will be
asked to come judge at that clubs shows. I can’t tell you how many
times I’ve been waiting for a photo and heard judges “asking”
handler “now do I get to judge at your clubs show”. Having
been in All-Breed Clubs I have seen this first hand, judges from the east like
to come to the west and so on, they know who belongs to which clubs. I
guess it is just like Politics only they “Lobby” for assignments
in areas of the country they like or would like to visit.
Home of CH Berihill Bye Bye Love JH
"CANDI"
Home of Briarfields Autumn Connection JH
NAVHDA NA Prize II "CASH"
Home of the 2005 Westminster BIS NSC, BIS, BISS CH Kan-Points VJK
Autumn Roses "CARLEE"
I
no longer waste money entering under certain judges. I usually give them
a couple of chances but if they show me they are judging the people instead of
the dogs, I no longer give them entries. It is sad to have to sit out of
certain shows that are nearby or where we love the venue, but at the price of
travel and entries these days, I will wait for judges where I at least feel I
might have a chance.
Donna,
I agree, but it is hard when all of the local shows that someone attends are
usually hiring the same judges over and over again, which IMO are not good
judges. I have to just sit and wait, sometimes a long time for a show who
has decent judges. That is frustrating as well.
This
has been going on since the beginning of dog shows. The solution is quite
simple, just don't show to that judge again. It's like when a politician
is elected - if he/she sucks, then don't vote for him/her next time. You
can't file a complaint and get them out of office. Just like you can't
file a complaint against a judge because he/she only picked a handler.
I
agree, Dena and wish there was a solution!!
I'm
fine when losing to a better dog/bitch. But I'm thoroughly discouraged
when a Judge puts up a lesser standard just because of what is on the other end
of the lead. I've heard Judges say, why didn't I see this dog/bitch in my
group ring yesterday? Well, it's the handler vs. standard vs politics vs
personal favorites vs a well advertised dog/bitch. There are many
scenarios. One time in group, a Judge walked down the line doing her final
look; however, she didn't look at the dog/bitch - she looked at who was on the
other end of the lead.
How are Judges held
accountable for awarding the standard? Are they held to ethics? Do we
need to file a complaint when they don't? So then what happens - do the powers
that be keep an eye on that judge? And if so, how closely do they monitor
and address the situation? Where and how do we find resolve in
this? Like our government, are the dog shows so tied up in politics
there won't be any resolve?
Please
don't get me wrong, I do respect professional handlers and professional
owner/handlers for all that they do. Some have handled our girl and
many have been my mentors. It's the Judges that need to be held
accountable for rewarding the standard not personal preferences.
There
are many scenarios that you can take into account in the show ring. I handled
my dogs in the ring, group ring and specialty shows and did well with them. Who
else may be in the ring to influence the results. Let's see, Pro Handlers,
Pro Handlers that are owners, Owners that are judges, and
the possibilities go on and on. The other possibility is the judge that
has a tight schedule and may avoid having to judge the dogs again in the
breed ring so he/she chooses an owner handled dog just to move
it along. Pro handlers are used for a whole bunch of reasons, the most
obvious is that they can bring out the best in your dog. Will the
next thing be "Breeder/owner handled" dogs? Keep in mind I am not
being negative, just thinkin' what the results of this NEW thing may be.
n
a message dated 4/5/2012 11:20:36 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gspfreak@aol.com
writes:
Soooo
true! Bonnie, I don't envy your neck of the woods, it's the battle of the
handlers more than who is the top dog. 
Our standard is being disregarded and the judges are doing whatever the hell
they want and putting their personal preferences before what is correct form
and function.
I just removed my special from weeks of the Eastern show scene (and it's not
exclusive to that area) so I know what I'm talking about!
Tracy
In
a message dated 4/4/2012 8:50:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gsp4me@hughes.net
writes:
I
will put my two cents worth here and send a HIGH five to Terry. I am a
breeder/owner/handler, been in the breed for about 15 years with a break to
raise children and I swore I would not be forced out of showing but it is sure
getting close. I love this breed and I am getting soo heartbroken showing in
the breed ring. Please do not think I am a novice. I am not kennel blind,
I do a decent job, if not better than most in showing my dogs and my dogs are
in great condition, etc. I know my dogs faults and understand most of the
time when they do not place. I have also spayed and neutered dogs I have
finished, knowing just because a dog is a champion, does not mean he/she should
be bred. Showing used to be for breeding stock, not any more. The Pros IMO, are
taking over and the judges seem to lack the education on breed standard and/or
delve into the political arena. Showing is almost a business now a days.
AKC will run itself into the ground eventually due to the lack of priority of
the owner/handlers. That is how showing dogs started, with the
breeder/owner/handler and now we are definitely in the minority.
Off my soap box and going back into the shadows. 
Vicki-Stormwynd.
Great
post Vicki...In total agreement. I got my first GSP out of the Newspaper
back in 1981. Knew NOTHING about showing until 1982 when I went to a
local match show here on LI. (I was into horses..LOL) Met some show
folks there who were training puppies. Well, the rest is history.
In 1984 I got a beautiful show quality bitch. That bitch I finished her
myself. She became #5 GSP for a while. In '87 and '88 she was in the top
4 finalist at Westminster with
an entry of 40 with NOVICE ME handling her. This doesn't
happen any more. Here in the NE, handlers have taken over. Sorry
folks...JMO
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