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Unwillyn

MH
Posts:183

12/07/2011 4:26 PM
How many people today (other than Inge and Robin) can tell you right off the top of their heads who the #1 dogs have been in the last 20-30 years. How about even the last 5 or 10????? (No, you can't count Ace)!!!! How about the most influential stud dogs other than Toby?? Who remembers Geezee Super Chief? They ranked him #1 for a couple of years, then Jeanne then Ivanhoe. All that campaigning.....who now even remembers. But their genes carry on and the friendships endure. On Oct 18, 2011, at 2:03 PM, Inge Clody wrote: > I would love to see those pictures! > > From: Mary Morris > To: gsp-l > Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 11:44 AM > Subject: RE: [gsp-l] What is a breeder's "line?" > > > A couple of years ago at one of our clubs meetings someone said "So > where are the life time members? They need to get involved." > Thank goodness for Betty Sandberg firing off a letter to the editor > about the Life Timers. They have been involved and involved and when > they are in their twight light years they were ready to hand the > running of the club over to the younguns. > Some of us who will always want to learn more about breeding and > traits will touch base with the "Life Timers". > > Right now in the Minnesota club over 3/4 of the members have no idea > who or what Kaposia is. Can you imagine? So how can anyone plan on > their "LINE" if they do not know anything about the dogs in our past. > > Betty sent me a package last week of very old snap shots of dogs. > There are two of Esser Chick that I haven't seen before. That of > course is who I remember right now. > > Ok, sorry I am rambling but it just makes me CRAZY!!! > > > > Mary Morris > > Aus Dem Norden GSP's > www.ausdemnordengsp.netkennel.com > AKC Breeder of Merit > > > Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 13:36:08 -0400 > From: whiteriver@embarqmail.com > To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net > Subject: Re: [gsp-l] What is a breeder's "line?" > > #yiv1355178932 .yiv1355178932ExternalClass p {} > THANK YOU LEITA! I don't think I have ever seen my concerns about > current breeding practices and 'breeder' mentality expressed so > completely and concisely. > > 'CHAR' > www.whiterivershorthairs.com > > From: "Leita Estes" > To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net > Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 12:25:39 PM > Subject: Re: [gsp-l] What is a breeder's "line?" > > I had to smile when I read your post Mary. There is a very large > number of "breeders" that after 1 or 2 generations think they have a > line. These are the people that profess to know so much and because > of that will learn nothing. These are most likely the people that > only are in a breed for the "average" time of 10 years (thank > goodness). I feel sorry for the newbies that think they know > everything. My mentors are still my sounding board and we learn from > each other. I very much miss being able to call and talk to Vance > (Columbia River) and Jo and Walt (Gretchenhof) but I still speak to > Inge and Linda about my planned breeding's, send them puppy pictures > and in the case of Inge always have her come over and see the > puppies. This is what learning is all about. Your mentors are a > source of knowledge of the past and you need that to move forward. > Mentors do need to be there to help you but they must not have the > attitude of "my way or the highway." > > It is the breeders before you that have laid the foundation for the > future and when one forgets that you are domed to fail. As was said > in an earlier post you don't have a line until other breeders can > look at your puppies generation after generation and say "oh that > must be an X puppy". There are many people that start with real > "lines" and after a couple of generation no one can tell where they > came from. > > I myself after generations of my own breeding always say my dogs are > a combination of Columbia River/Gretchenhof, Minado and Weinland. > These are the "lines" that I have used to continue my minds eye view > of a GSP . I feel that I have successfully merged these > "lines" (which are all very similar in type) to have the phenotype I > want. I guess I would consider that I have a "line" only because I > have fixed my phenotype for my use. > I don't understand anyone that thinks they have to protect "their > line" because your line is your dogs. When you sell a puppy you need > to help guide the new owners but those puppies are theirs to move > forward with. They might not have the same minds eye view that you > have and will diverge from you but that is what makes the world go > around. > > Leita Estes Shortales German Shorthaired Pointers > Home of Multiple BIS, BISS GCh Shortales N Cahoots W Irondale, JH > # 1 GSP all breed 2011 > 1 Spotty dog (Dalmatian) Ch. Merry Go Rounds Match Point > From: Mary Morris > To: gsp-l > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 7:01 PM > Subject: RE: [gsp-l] What is a breeder's "line?" > > #yiv1355178932 .yiv1355178932ExternalClass > #yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908 > .yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908hmmessage P {padding:0px;} > #yiv1355178932 .yiv1355178932ExternalClass > #yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908 > body.yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font- > family:Tahoma;} > I find this thread very interesting. I had a phone conversation with > some one that has a bitch out one of my males. Bought a dog from a > frozen breeding from one of my old dogs, the bitch went back to this > dog 4 times. She then bred her dog and bitch to get a litter. She > now says she needs to protect her line. Umm not your line, she says > yes it is she bred them together.... But then as soon as something > goes wrong or a muck then it will be my line again.... > > > Mary Morris > > Aus Dem Norden GSP's > www.ausdemnordengsp.netkennel.com > AKC Breeder of Merit > > > From: autumnsgsp@earthlink.net > To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net > Subject: RE: [gsp-l] What is a breeder's "line?" > Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 15:06:26 -0700 > > #yiv1355178932 .yiv1355178932ExternalClass > #yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908 > .yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908ExternalClass > .yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908ecx.yiv1355178932shape {} > #yiv1355178932 .yiv1355178932ExternalClass > #yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908 > .yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908ExternalClass > p.yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908ecxMsoNormal, > #yiv1355178932 .yiv1355178932ExternalClass > #yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908 > .yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908ExternalClass > li.yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908ecxMsoNormal, > #yiv1355178932 .yiv1355178932ExternalClass > #yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908 > .yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908ExternalClass > div.yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908ecxMsoNormal {margin-bottom:. > 0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"serif";} > #yiv1355178932 .yiv1355178932ExternalClass > #yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908 > .yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908ExternalClass a:link, > #yiv1355178932 .yiv1355178932ExternalClass > #yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908 > .yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908ExternalClass > span.yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908ecxMsoHyperlink {color:blue;text- > decoration:underline;} #yiv1355178932 .yiv1355178932ExternalClass > #yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908 > .yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908ExternalClass a:visited, > #yiv1355178932 .yiv1355178932ExternalClass > #yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908 > .yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908ExternalClass > span.yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908ecxMsoHyperlinkFollowed > {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} > #yiv1355178932 .yiv1355178932ExternalClass > #yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908 > .yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908ExternalClass > span.yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908ecxEmailStyle17 {font-family:"sans- > serif";color:#1F497D;} #yiv1355178932 .yiv1355178932ExternalClass > #yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908 > .yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908ExternalClass > .yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908ecx.yiv1355178932MsoChpDefault {font- > size:10.0pt;} #yiv1355178932 .yiv1355178932ExternalClass > ecx_filtered #yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908 {} > #yiv1355178932 .yiv1355178932ExternalClass > #yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908 > .yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908ExternalClass > div.yiv1355178932ecxyiv1949967908ecxWordSection1 {} > NO, line breeding would be “some” similar lines in the back ground > but not close like Patti showed: > > Inbreeding is sire/daughter - dam/son - half sibling/half sibling - > full sibling/full sibling - uncle or aunt/niece-nephew with each > half of the pedigree being doubled up on... > > Line breeding would be similar lines on both sides but not as close > as father/daughter or mother/son. > > Carol Cronk > Autumn's GSP's > Home of CH Berihill Bye Bye Love JH "CANDI" > Home of Briarfields Autumn Connection NAVHDA NA Prize II "CASH" > Home of the 2005 Westminster BIS NSC, BIS, BISS CH Kan-Points VJK > Autumn Roses "CARLEE" > > From: gsp-l-request@shorthairs.net [mailto:gsp-l-request@shorthairs.net > ] On Behalf Of tbrumbaugh@endosurgicalsource.com > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 2:53 PM > To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net > Subject: Re: [gsp-l] What is a breeder's "line?" > > Hi Patti > > I think when you refer to inbreeding, you actually mean linebreeding? > > Terry Brumbaugh > Endo Surgical Source, Inc > 717-503-7012 > Tbrumbaugh@endosurgicalsource.com > > > -----Original message----- > From: Patte > To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net > Sent: Mon, Oct 17, 2011 21:32:08 GMT+00:00 > Subject: Re: [gsp-l] What is a breeder's "line?" > On Oct 17, 2011, at 2:07 PM, Donna Ray wrote: "We are having an > interesting discussion on the border terrier list about what > constitutes a breeder's "line." I'd like to know what folks here > have to say." > > This is how my father explained inbreeding and outcross. (My family > primarily bred hunting dogs and performance horses(Quarter and > Thoroughbred). > > Inbreeding is sire/daughter - dam/son - half sibling/half sibling - > full sibling/full sibling - uncle or aunt/niece-nephew with each > half of the pedigree being doubled up on... > > Outcrossing was to breed two animals that had no common relatives on > either side of the pedigree. > > Use of kennel names can be misleading if one doesn't know who > actually bred the dogs, how many pups were in a litter, who bought > them and what if any kennel name was used when they were registered. > For example: Annaconti's Levi Garrett. How many GSP folks would > recognize the Annaconti kennel name? Yet this dog came from two very > recognizable kennel/bloodlines Weinland and Lieblinghaus. > > Inbreeding is not for the faint of heart as any problems in the > genetic make-up will usually surface relatively quick. On the flip > side it can also bring forth desired results as well. > > About the Argentina litter...If her bitch shares no common relatives > with the rest of the dogs in the pedigree, "the lady doth protest > too much...." > > Patte Titus > CheckSix Shorthairs > > > > Unsubscribing: To unsubscribe from the list, send an email message > in PLAIN TEXT to gsp-l-request@web.whc.net with message text of > "unsubscribe gsp-l you@email.add" (replace the email address with > yours, don't include the quotes and note it is a lower case L after > the dash in gsp-l). > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.1831 / Virus Database: 2090/4557 - Release Date: > 10/17/11 > > > > Unsubscribing: To unsubscribe from the list, send an email message in PLAIN TEXT to gsp-l-request@web.whc.net with message text of "unsubscribe gsp-l you@email.add" (replace the email address with yours, don't include the quotes and note it is a lower case L after the dash in gsp-l).

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