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Subject: Re: [gsp-l] What is a breeder's "line?"

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ingeclody

San Diego

MH
Posts:115

12/07/2011 4:24 PM
I would love to see those pictures! From: Mary Morris To: gsp-l Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 11:44 AM Subject: RE: [gsp-l] What is a breeder's "line?" A couple of years ago at one of our clubs meetings someone said "So where are the life time members? They need to get involved." Thank goodness for Betty Sandberg firing off a letter to the editor about the Life Timers. They have been involved and involved and when they are in their twight light years they were ready to hand the running of the club over to the younguns. Some of us who will always want to learn more about breeding and traits will touch base with the "Life Timers". Right now in the Minnesota club over 3/4 of the members have no idea who or what Kaposia is. Can you imagine? So how can anyone plan on their "LINE" if they do not know anything about the dogs in our past. Betty sent me a package last week of very old snap shots of dogs. There are two of Esser Chick that I haven't seen before. That of course is who I remember right now. Ok, sorry I am rambling but it just makes me CRAZY!!! Mary Morris Aus Dem Norden GSP's www.ausdemnordengsp.netkennel.com AKC Breeder of Merit Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 13:36:08 -0400 From: whiteriver@embarqmail.com To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net Subject: Re: [gsp-l] What is a breeder's "line?" THANK YOU LEITA! I don't think I have ever seen my concerns about current breeding practices and 'breeder' mentality expressed so completely and concisely. 'CHAR' www.whiterivershorthairs.com From: "Leita Estes" To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 12:25:39 PM Subject: Re: [gsp-l] What is a breeder's "line?" I had to smile when I read your post Mary. There is a very large number of "breeders" that after 1 or 2 generations think they have a line. These are the people that profess to know so much and because of that will learn nothing. These are most likely the people that only are in a breed for the "average" time of 10 years (thank goodness). I feel sorry for the newbies that think they know everything. My mentors are still my sounding board and we learn from each other. I very much miss being able to call and talk to Vance (Columbia River) and Jo and Walt (Gretchenhof) but I still speak to Inge and Linda about my planned breeding's, send them puppy pictures and in the case of Inge always have her come over and see the puppies. This is what learning is all about. Your mentors are a source of knowledge of the past and you need that to move forward. Mentors do need to be there to help you but they must not have the attitude of "my way or the highway." It is the breeders before you that have laid the foundation for the future and when one forgets that you are domed to fail. As was said in an earlier post you don't have a line until other breeders can look at your puppies generation after generation and say "oh that must be an X puppy". There are many people that start with real "lines" and after a couple of generation no one can tell where they came from. I myself after generations of my own breeding always say my dogs are a combination of Columbia River/Gretchenhof, Minado and Weinland. These are the "lines" that I have used to continue my minds eye view of a GSP . I feel that I have successfully merged these "lines" (which are all very similar in type) to have the phenotype I want. I guess I would consider that I have a "line" only because I have fixed my phenotype for my use. I don't understand anyone that thinks they have to protect "their line" because your line is your dogs. When you sell a puppy you need to help guide the new owners but those puppies are theirs to move forward with. They might not have the same minds eye view that you have and will diverge from you but that is what makes the world go around. Leita Estes Shortales German Shorthaired Pointers Home of Multiple BIS, BISS GCh Shortales N Cahoots W Irondale, JH # 1 GSP all breed 2011 1 Spotty dog (Dalmatian) Ch. Merry Go Rounds Match Point From: Mary Morris To: gsp-l Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 7:01 PM Subject: RE: [gsp-l] What is a breeder's "line?" I find this thread very interesting. I had a phone conversation with some one that has a bitch out one of my males. Bought a dog from a frozen breeding from one of my old dogs, the bitch went back to this dog 4 times. She then bred her dog and bitch to get a litter. She now says she needs to protect her line. Umm not your line, she says yes it is she bred them together.... But then as soon as something goes wrong or a muck then it will be my line again.... Mary Morris Aus Dem Norden GSP's www.ausdemnordengsp.netkennel.com AKC Breeder of Merit From: autumnsgsp@earthlink.net To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net Subject: RE: [gsp-l] What is a breeder's "line?" Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 15:06:26 -0700 NO, line breeding would be “some” similar lines in the back ground but not close like Patti showed: Inbreeding is sire/daughter - dam/son - half sibling/half sibling - full sibling/full sibling - uncle or aunt/niece-nephew with each half of the pedigree being doubled up on... Line breeding would be similar lines on both sides but not as close as father/daughter or mother/son. Carol Cronk Autumn's GSP's Home of *CH Berihill Bye Bye Love JH "CANDI"* Home of *Briarfields Autumn Connection NAVHDA NA Prize II "CASH"* Home of the 2005 Westminster BIS *NSC, BIS, BISS CH Kan-Points VJK Autumn Roses "CARLEE"* From: gsp-l-request@shorthairs.net [mailto:gsp-l-request@shorthairs.net] On Behalf Of tbrumbaugh@endosurgicalsource.com Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 2:53 PM To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net Subject: Re: [gsp-l] What is a breeder's "line?" Hi Patti I think when you refer to inbreeding, you actually mean linebreeding? Terry Brumbaugh Endo Surgical Source, Inc 717-503-7012 Tbrumbaugh@endosurgicalsource.com -----Original message----- From: Patte To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net Sent: Mon, Oct 17, 2011 21:32:08 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [gsp-l] What is a breeder's "line?" On Oct 17, 2011, at 2:07 PM, Donna Ray wrote: "We are having an interesting discussion on the border terrier list about what constitutes a breeder's "line." I'd like to know what folks here have to say." This is how my father explained inbreeding and outcross. (My family primarily bred hunting dogs and performance horses(Quarter and Thoroughbred). Inbreeding is sire/daughter - dam/son - half sibling/half sibling - full sibling/full sibling - uncle or aunt/niece-nephew with each half of the pedigree being doubled up on... Outcrossing was to breed two animals that had no common relatives on either side of the pedigree. Use of kennel names can be misleading if one doesn't know who actually bred the dogs, how many pups were in a litter, who bought them and what if any kennel name was used when they were registered. For example: Annaconti's Levi Garrett. How many GSP folks would recognize the Annaconti kennel name? Yet this dog came from two very recognizable kennel/bloodlines Weinland and Lieblinghaus. Inbreeding is not for the faint of heart as any problems in the genetic make-up will usually surface relatively quick. On the flip side it can also bring forth desired results as well. About the Argentina litter...If her bitch shares no common relatives with the rest of the dogs in the pedigree, "the lady doth protest too much...." Patte Titus CheckSix Shorthairs Unsubscribing: To unsubscribe from the list, send an email message in PLAIN TEXT to gsp-l-request@web.whc.net with message text of "unsubscribe gsp-l you@email.add" (replace the email address with yours, don't include the quotes and note it is a lower case L after the dash in gsp-l). No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1831 / Virus Database: 2090/4557 - Release Date: 10/17/11

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