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reflectiongsps
MH
Posts:155
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| 08/05/2011 1:09 AM |
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This is something I have been wondering about for quite a while...
I would be interested in knowing what other breeders feel is the difference, if any, in the mental development of a puppy that is Kennel Building raised as opposed to In Home raised.
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
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rhjohnston9587
SH
Posts:44
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| 08/05/2011 1:09 AM |
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House dogs are almost always better than kennel dogs, other things being equal. You need wonder no longer. Bob Johnston
To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net Subject: [gsp-l] New Topic From: reflectiongsps@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 16:32:50 -0400
This is something I have been wondering about for quite a while...
I would be interested in knowing what other breeders feel is the difference, if any, in the mental development of a puppy that is Kennel Building raised as opposed to In Home raised.
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7843
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| 08/05/2011 1:09 AM |
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I am by no means an expert, but IMHO it
boils down to two really simple things: 1) more opportunities for new
experiences and interactions when raised in a house, and 2) (and the most
important again IMHO) better opportunity for socialization and good old fashion
love. Not saying someone who has a kennel couldn’t accomplish the
same thing, but it seems to me it would require more work simply because there
would have to be active decisions by the family to go to the kennel and interact
frequently with the puppies. I know when Halo had her puppies last year
she and pups were in the spare bedroom at first, but as soon as eyes and ears
were open I moved them to the breakfast area in the kitchen. They were
the center of all activity because they were right where everyone was most of
the day. They saw, heard, smelled, felt and had so many experiences it
was amazing. If they had been in the backyard in a kennel they would have
missed out on that experience simply because it would have been too hard to
move them back and forth off and on all day.
Bev
The Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny
Ringo) and the Princess (Fauna)
Yellow
Rose GSPs
From: gsp-l-request@shorthairs.net
[mailto:gsp-l-request@shorthairs.net] On
Behalf Of reflectiongsps@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 3:33
PM
To: ersonName w:st="on">gsp-l@shorthairs.netersonName>
Subject: [gsp-l] New Topic
This is something I
have been wondering about for quite a while...
I
would be interested in knowing what other breeders feel is the difference, if
any, in the mental development of a puppy that is laceName
w:st="on">KennellaceName> laceType w:st="on">BuildinglaceType> raised
as opposed to In Home raised.
Anne
M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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reflectiongsps
MH
Posts:155
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| 08/05/2011 1:09 AM |
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Though in general I agree with you Robert, what I am interested in knowing is if there is a noticeable difference in the behavior/mannerisms and attitudes of the Kennel Building raised pup that remain to adulthood.
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert H Johnston
To: gsp-l
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 3:41 pm
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] New Topic
House dogs are almost always better than kennel dogs, other things being equal. You need wonder no longer. Bob Johnston
To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net
Subject: [gsp-l] New Topic
From: reflectiongsps@aol.com
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 16:32:50 -0400
This is something I have been wondering about for quite a while...
I would be interested in knowing what other breeders feel is the difference, if any, in the mental development of a puppy that is Kennel Building raised as opposed to In Home raised.
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
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ASKMEGSP
MH
Posts:184
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| 08/05/2011 1:11 AM |
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I would absolutely agree. The more stimulation a puppy receives, the better. There is a greater opportunity for human interaction when puppies are raised in the house.
Ann
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert H Johnston
To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 4:40 pm
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] New Topic
House dogs are almost always better than kennel dogs, other things being equal. You need wonder no longer. Bob Johnston
To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net
Subject: [gsp-l] New Topic
From: reflectiongsps@aol.com
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 16:32:50 -0400
This is something I have been wondering about for quite a while...
I would be interested in knowing what other breeders feel is the difference, if any, in the mental development of a puppy that is Kennel Building raised as opposed to In Home raised.
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
=
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dise454
MH
Posts:144
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| 08/05/2011 1:11 AM |
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Anne,
I have never raised a puppy in a kennel, but I would think the puppies would have much less personal interaction and less attention given to them. Ultimately this could create temperament problems if not socialized properly. I'm sure that a well run kennel would find ways to work through these challenges.
-----Original Message-----
From: reflectiongsps
To: gsp-l
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 12:34 pm
Subject: [gsp-l] New Topic
This is something I have been wondering about for quite a while...
I would be interested in knowing what other breeders feel is the difference, if any, in the mental development of a puppy that is Kennel Building raised as opposed to In Home raised.
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
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WhiteslineGSP
JH
Posts:37
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| 08/05/2011 1:11 AM |
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While I strongly agree that a home raised litter gets more exposure to the different smells, sounds etc. of the home and the people around them, I believe there are other influences that also develope a well adjusted puppy/dog. I truly believe the temperament of the mother has a great deal to do with the temperament of the litter since their first weeks are spent mostly with her. Hands on from day one, modified temperament test activities, I think are a wonderful help for a well adjusted puppy/dog. I also believe that regardless of where a litter is whelped and lives initially, they need as much exposure to new places, travel, sounds, surfaces and people as possible ( after they have had their shots). JMO
Carol White
-----Original Message-----
From: dise454
To: gsp-l
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 6:12 pm
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] New Topic
Anne,
I have never raised a puppy in a kennel, but I would think the puppies would have much less personal interaction and less attention given to them. Ultimately this could create temperament problems if not socialized properly. I'm sure that a well run kennel would find ways to work through these challenges.
-----Original Message-----
From: reflectiongsps < reflectiongsps@aol.com>
To: gsp-l < gsp-l@shorthairs.net>
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 12:34 pm
Subject: [gsp-l] New Topic
This is something I have been wondering about for quite a while...
I would be interested in knowing what other breeders feel is the difference, if any, in the mental development of a puppy that is Kennel Building raised as opposed to In Home raised.
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
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reflectiongsps
MH
Posts:155
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| 08/05/2011 1:13 AM |
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Interesting... I had not thought about the influence the mothers temperament has on a litter...would explain alot with the temperament issues I have with two of my girls...both have the same mother, and if memory serves, the first time I saw their mother, she was totally wired and uncontrollable, and was laughingly told that that was her nature. But then her mother, thinking back to when I owned her for a time, was the same way. Hmm...makes sense.
About the Modified Temperament Testing Activities...what do you do? What kind of activities? I home raise all my pups, first in the spare bedroom until their eyes open, then into the kitchen, then part of the day outside after they turn 5 weeks old, so it has not been an issue, but I would be very interested to know how you test them and what activities you do with them.
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
-----Original Message-----
From: whiteslinegsp
To: gsp-l
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 5:49 pm
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] New Topic
While I strongly agree that a home raised litter gets more exposure to the different smells, sounds etc. of the home and the people around them, I believe there are other influences that also develope a well adjusted puppy/dog. I truly believe the temperament of the mother has a great deal to do with the temperament of the litter since their first weeks are spent mostly with her. Hands on from day one, modified temperament test activities, I think are a wonderful help for a well adjusted puppy/dog. I also believe that regardless of where a litter is whelped and lives initially, they need as much exposure to new places, travel, sounds, surfaces and people as possible ( after they have had their shots). JMO
Carol White
-----Original Message-----
From: dise454 < dise454@aol.com>
To: gsp-l < gsp-l@shorthairs.net>
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 6:12 pm
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] New Topic
Anne,
I have never raised a puppy in a kennel, but I would think the puppies would have much less personal interaction and less attention given to them. Ultimately this could create temperament problems if not socialized properly. I'm sure that a well run kennel would find ways to work through these challenges.
-----Original Message-----
From: reflectiongsps < reflectiongsps@aol.com>
To: gsp-l < gsp-l@shorthairs.net>
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 12:34 pm
Subject: [gsp-l] New Topic
This is something I have been wondering about for quite a while...
I would be interested in knowing what other breeders feel is the difference, if any, in the mental development of a puppy that is Kennel Building raised as opposed to In Home raised.
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
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gsp4me
MH
Posts:92
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| 08/05/2011 1:13 AM |
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Totally agree. Vicki From: gsp-l-request@shorthairs.net [mailto:gsp-l-request@shorthairs.net] On Behalf Of Ann Wallace
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 4:33 PM
To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] New Topic I would absolutely agree. The more stimulation a puppy receives, the better. There is a greater opportunity for human interaction when puppies are raised in the house. -----Original Message-----
From: Robert H Johnston
To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 4:40 pm
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] New Topic House dogs are almost always better than kennel dogs, other things being equal. You need wonder no longer. Bob Johnston
To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net
Subject: [gsp-l] New Topic
From: reflectiongsps@aol.com
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 16:32:50 -0400 This is something I have been wondering about for quite a while... I would be interested in knowing what other breeders feel is the difference, if any, in the mental development of a puppy that is Kennel Building raised as opposed to In Home raised. Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg. = |
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Gspdoo
MH
Posts:326
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| 08/05/2011 1:13 AM |
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I believe she is referring to the Volhard Puppy Aptitude Test. This is
administered at 49 days and helps predict some characteristics the puppies will
have later in life. I have a certified Volhard tester in my area who has been
doing these for me for years. I think Carol might have been referring to
some of the test exercises as a way to help socialize the puppy. Here is
the link to the Volhard's site which explains their testing methods. Please note
that for the 7 week test, it must be done in an environment unfamiliar to the
puppy to have validity. But you could certainly do some of these
exercises playing with them at home.
Sandra Kretz
MARIAH
In a message dated 7/12/2011 8:35:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
reflectiongsps@aol.com writes:
Interesting... I had not thought about the influence the mothers
temperament has on a litter...would explain alot with the temperament issues I
have with two of my girls...both have the same mother, and if memory serves,
the first time I saw their mother, she was totally wired and uncontrollable,
and was laughingly told that that was her nature. But then her mother,
thinking back to when I owned her for a time, was the same way.
Hmm...makes sense.
About the Modified Temperament Testing
Activities...what do you do? What kind of activities? I home raise
all my pups, first in the spare bedroom until their eyes open, then into the
kitchen, then part of the day outside after they turn 5 weeks old, so it has
not been an issue, but I would be very interested to know how you test them
and what activities you do with them.
Anne M
Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
-----Original
Message----- From: whiteslinegsp
To: gsp-l
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 5:49 pm
Subject:
Re: [gsp-l] New Topic
While I strongly agree
that a home raised litter gets more exposure to the different smells, sounds
etc. of the home and the people around them, I believe there
are other influences that also develope a well adjusted puppy/dog. I truly
believe the temperament of the mother has a great deal to do with the
temperament of the litter since their first weeks are spent mostly with
her. Hands on from day one, modified temperament test activities, I think
are a wonderful help for a well adjusted puppy/dog. I also believe
that regardless of where a litter is whelped and lives initially, they
need as much exposure to new places, travel, sounds, surfaces and people as
possible ( after they have had their shots). JMO
Carol White
-----Original
Message----- From: dise454 < dise454@aol.com> To: gsp-l < gsp-l@shorthairs.net> Sent: Tue,
Jul 12, 2011 6:12 pm Subject: Re: [gsp-l] New Topic
Anne,
I have never raised a puppy in a kennel, but I would think the puppies
would have much less personal interaction and less attention given to them.
Ultimately this could create temperament problems if not socialized
properly. I'm sure that a well run kennel would find ways to work
through these challenges.
-----Original Message-----
From:
reflectiongsps < reflectiongsps@aol.com> To:
gsp-l < gsp-l@shorthairs.net> Sent: Tue,
Jul 12, 2011 12:34 pm Subject: [gsp-l] New Topic
This is something I have been wondering about for quite a while...
I would be interested in knowing what other breeders feel is the
difference, if any, in the mental development of a puppy that is Kennel
Building raised as opposed to In Home raised.
Anne M
Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
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rhjohnston9587
SH
Posts:44
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| 08/05/2011 1:13 AM |
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There is a condition known as kennel blindness marked by an indifference to people which is supposed to be permanent. The puppy has a period of time during which it receives input as to what are the significant others in it's life. If there are no humans around during that period the puppy loses it's chance to imprint on people. If the puppy is raised in the house where there are presumably people it will accept people as natural companions the rest of it's life. This imprinting is common to a number of species, ducks, geese, horses, humans and so on. Being in a kennel does not mean a puppy cannot imprint only that special efforts should be taken to handle the puppy and play with it, putting a kid in the kennel with the puppies works well, the puppy is imprinted and you're rid of the kid for six weeks. JOKE! I wouldn't want to be blacklisted by the ladies, I use that term advisedly as someone on the list pointed out they had "b*lls".
Since we are deciding who is adequate to post on the list I'd like to mention a few things. There are CANADIANS on the list, they are definitely foreigners, they should be expunged from the list at once! Well, maybe one exception, Arwen Dabb still has time ticking on her imprint opportunity, maybe we should draw stra.., no by gosh, I volunteer to help her. Then there are the Texans on the list, a kookier collection of bloated egos does not exist, they must go! Now everyone knows that the Arizonans and New Mexicans are in the country illegally, back to Mexico with them! If miscegenation isn't a crime it ought to be so any listers with white Pointers masquerading as shorthairs will be run off the list! Anybody left? Put them on probation, we'll get them later. All my best, Bob
To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net Subject: Re: [gsp-l] New Topic From: reflectiongsps@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 17:05:40 -0400 Though in general I agree with you Robert, what I am interested in knowing is if there is a noticeable difference in the behavior/mannerisms and attitudes of the Kennel Building raised pup that remain to adulthood.
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
-----Original Message----- From: Robert H Johnston
To: gsp-l
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 3:41 pm
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] New Topic
House dogs are almost always better than kennel dogs, other things being equal. You need wonder no longer. Bob Johnston
To: gsp-l@shorthairs.netSubject: [gsp-l] New Topic From: reflectiongsps@aol.comDate: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 16:32:50 -0400
This is something I have been wondering about for quite a while...
I would be interested in knowing what other breeders feel is the difference, if any, in the mental development of a puppy that is Kennel Building raised as opposed to In Home raised.
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7843
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| 08/05/2011 1:15 AM |
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| I haven't ever met you Bob, and even though I am a Texan and we all know how crazy or kooky Texans are, I already like you. ROFLMAO.
Thought I would share an interesting article on this topic that was written in 1994.
I have seen other studies as well, but I am on the road and could not easily find them.
Bev --- On Wed, 7/13/11, Robert H Johnston wrote:
From: Robert H Johnston
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] New Topic
To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net
Date:
Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 4:14 AM
There is a condition known as kennel blindness marked by an indifference to people which is supposed to be permanent. The puppy has a period of time during which it receives input as to what are the significant others in it's life. If there are no humans around during that period the puppy loses it's chance to imprint on people. If the puppy is raised in the house where there are presumably people it will accept people as natural companions the rest of it's life. This imprinting is common to a number of species, ducks, geese, horses, humans and so on. Being in a kennel does not mean a puppy cannot imprint only that special efforts should be taken to handle the puppy and play with it, putting a kid in the kennel with the puppies works well, the puppy is imprinted and you're rid of the kid for six weeks. JOKE! I wouldn't want to be blacklisted by the ladies, I use that term advisedly as someone on the list pointed out they had "b*lls".
Since we are deciding who is adequate to post on the list I'd like to mention a few things. There are CANADIANS on the list, they are definitely foreigners, they should be expunged from the list at once! Well, maybe one exception, Arwen Dabb still has time ticking on her imprint opportunity, maybe we should draw stra.., no by gosh, I volunteer to help her. Then there are the Texans on the list, a kookier collection of bloated egos does not exist, they must go! Now everyone knows that the Arizonans and New Mexicans are in the country illegally, back to Mexico with them! If miscegenation isn't a crime it ought to be so any listers with white Pointers masquerading as shorthairs will be run off the list! Anybody left? Put them on probation, we'll get them later. All my best, Bob
To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net Subject: Re: [gsp-l] New Topic From: reflectiongsps@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 17:05:40 -0400 Though in general I agree with you Robert, what I am interested in knowing is if there is a noticeable difference in the behavior/mannerisms and attitudes of the Kennel Building raised pup that remain to adulthood.
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
-----Original Message----- From: Robert H Johnston
To: gsp-l
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 3:41 pm
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] New Topic
House dogs are almost always better than kennel dogs, other things being equal. You need wonder no longer. Bob Johnston
To: gsp-l@shorthairs.netSubject: [gsp-l] New Topic From: reflectiongsps@aol.comDate: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 16:32:50 -0400
This is something I have been wondering about for quite a while...
I would be interested in knowing what other breeders feel is the difference, if any, in the mental development of a puppy that is Kennel Building raised as opposed to In Home raised.
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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reflectiongsps
MH
Posts:155
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| 08/05/2011 1:15 AM |
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THANK YOU!!!!!!
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gspdoo
To: gsp-l
Cc: Mariahgsps
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:49 pm
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] New Topic
I believe she is referring to the Volhard Puppy Aptitude Test. This is
administered at 49 days and helps predict some characteristics the puppies will
have later in life. I have a certified Volhard tester in my area who has been
doing these for me for years. I think Carol might have been referring to
some of the test exercises as a way to help socialize the puppy. Here is
the link to the Volhard's site which explains their testing methods. Please note
that for the 7 week test, it must be done in an environment unfamiliar to the
puppy to have validity. But you could certainly do some of these
exercises playing with them at home.
Sandra Kretz
MARIAH
Interesting... I had not thought about the influence the mothers
temperament has on a litter...would explain alot with the temperament issues I
have with two of my girls...both have the same mother, and if memory serves,
the first time I saw their mother, she was totally wired and uncontrollable,
and was laughingly told that that was her nature. But then her mother,
thinking back to when I owned her for a time, was the same way.
Hmm...makes sense.
About the Modified Temperament Testing
Activities...what do you do? What kind of activities? I home raise
all my pups, first in the spare bedroom until their eyes open, then into the
kitchen, then part of the day outside after they turn 5 weeks old, so it has
not been an issue, but I would be very interested to know how you test them
and what activities you do with them.
Anne M
Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
-----Original
Message-----
From: whiteslinegsp < whiteslinegsp@aol.com>
To: gsp-l
< gsp-l@shorthairs.net>
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 5:49 pm
Subject:
Re: [gsp-l] New Topic
While I strongly agree
that a home raised litter gets more exposure to the different smells, sounds
etc. of the home and the people around them, I believe there
are other influences that also develope a well adjusted puppy/dog. I truly
believe the temperament of the mother has a great deal to do with the
temperament of the litter since their first weeks are spent mostly with
her. Hands on from day one, modified temperament test activities, I think
are a wonderful help for a well adjusted puppy/dog. I also believe
that regardless of where a litter is whelped and lives initially, they
need as much exposure to new places, travel, sounds, surfaces and people as
possible ( after they have had their shots). JMO
Carol White
-----Original
Message-----
From: dise454 < dise454@aol.com>
To: gsp-l < gsp-l@shorthairs.net>
Sent: Tue,
Jul 12, 2011 6:12 pm
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] New Topic
Anne,
I have never raised a puppy in a kennel, but I would think the puppies
would have much less personal interaction and less attention given to them.
Ultimately this could create temperament problems if not socialized
properly. I'm sure that a well run kennel would find ways to work
through these challenges.
-----Original Message-----
From:
reflectiongsps < reflectiongsps@aol.com>
To:
gsp-l < gsp-l@shorthairs.net>
Sent: Tue,
Jul 12, 2011 12:34 pm
Subject: [gsp-l] New Topic
This is something I have been wondering about for quite a while...
I would be interested in knowing what other breeders feel is the
difference, if any, in the mental development of a puppy that is Kennel
Building raised as opposed to In Home raised.
Anne M
Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
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WhiteslineGSP
JH
Posts:37
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| 08/05/2011 1:15 AM |
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I handle each pup every day starting on the second day, picking them up and gently laying them on thier back touching feet and ears and talking to them. From about the seventh day I take them one by one to another room and do the same thing but for about 3-5 minutes and extend the lengh of time away from their mother every week. They have a kennel run when they are old enough and the weather permits that has a large ball, a small teeter only about three inches off the ground, a milk crate, several different doors mats of different surfaces, a parking cone and a hard plastic container lid about 3X4 feet with two inches deep with water in it. I also separate the pups at approx. 4 weeks, letting them play alone for a little while and that time also increases with their age.. Crate training starts gradually around 4 weeks.
In my experience this is also good for the bitch, she has complete trust that her babies will be okay and coming back and it gives the pups a little independence.
It is a lot of work but the rewards are many.
Carol
-----Original Message-----
From: reflectiongsps
To: gsp-l
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:35 pm
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] New Topic
Interesting... I had not thought about the influence the mothers temperament has on a litter...would explain alot with the temperament issues I have with two of my girls...both have the same mother, and if memory serves, the first time I saw their mother, she was totally wired and uncontrollable, and was laughingly told that that was her nature. But then her mother, thinking back to when I owned her for a time, was the same way. Hmm...makes sense.
About the Modified Temperament Testing Activities...what do you do? What kind of activities? I home raise all my pups, first in the spare bedroom until their eyes open, then into the kitchen, then part of the day outside after they turn 5 weeks old, so it has not been an issue, but I would be very interested to know how you test them and what activities you do with them.
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
-----Original Message-----
From: whiteslinegsp < whiteslinegsp@aol.com>
To: gsp-l < gsp-l@shorthairs.net>
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 5:49 pm
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] New Topic
While I strongly agree that a home raised litter gets more exposure to the different smells, sounds etc. of the home and the people around them, I believe there are other influences that also develope a well adjusted puppy/dog. I truly believe the temperament of the mother has a great deal to do with the temperament of the litter since their first weeks are spent mostly with her. Hands on from day one, modified temperament test activities, I think are a wonderful help for a well adjusted puppy/dog. I also believe that regardless of where a litter is whelped and lives initially, they need as much exposure to new places, travel, sounds, surfaces and people as possible ( after they have had their shots). JMO
Carol White
-----Original Message-----
From: dise454 < dise454@aol.com>
To: gsp-l < gsp-l@shorthairs.net>
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 6:12 pm
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] New Topic
Anne,
I have never raised a puppy in a kennel, but I would think the puppies would have much less personal interaction and less attention given to them. Ultimately this could create temperament problems if not socialized properly. I'm sure that a well run kennel would find ways to work through these challenges.
-----Original Message-----
From: reflectiongsps < reflectiongsps@aol.com>
To: gsp-l < gsp-l@shorthairs.net>
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 12:34 pm
Subject: [gsp-l] New Topic
This is something I have been wondering about for quite a while...
I would be interested in knowing what other breeders feel is the difference, if any, in the mental development of a puppy that is Kennel Building raised as opposed to In Home raised.
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
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donnabray
MH
Posts:73
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| 08/05/2011 1:15 AM |
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Hello Bob (is this your real name?),
I didn't think I liked you much before, but this note made me laugh over my morning coffee!!!
Donna Ray Abbeville, SC
From: rhjohnston9587@msn.com To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net Subject: RE: [gsp-l] New Topic Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 21:14:07 -0700
There is a condition known as kennel blindness marked by an indifference to people which is supposed to be permanent. The puppy has a period of time during which it receives input as to what are the significant others in it's life. If there are no humans around during that period the puppy loses it's chance to imprint on people. If the puppy is raised in the house where there are presumably people it will accept people as natural companions the rest of it's life. This imprinting is common to a number of species, ducks, geese, horses, humans and so on. Being in a kennel does not mean a puppy cannot imprint only that special efforts should be taken to handle the puppy and play with it, putting a kid in the kennel with the puppies works well, the puppy is imprinted and you're rid of the kid for six weeks. JOKE! I wouldn't want to be blacklisted by the ladies, I use that term advisedly as someone on the list pointed out they had "b*lls".
Since we are deciding who is adequate to post on the list I'd like to mention a few things. There are CANADIANS on the list, they are definitely foreigners, they should be expunged from the list at once! Well, maybe one exception, Arwen Dabb still has time ticking on her imprint opportunity, maybe we should draw stra.., no by gosh, I volunteer to help her. Then there are the Texans on the list, a kookier collection of bloated egos does not exist, they must go! Now everyone knows that the Arizonans and New Mexicans are in the country illegally, back to Mexico with them! If miscegenation isn't a crime it ought to be so any listers with white Pointers masquerading as shorthairs will be run off the list! Anybody left? Put them on probation, we'll get them later. All my best, Bob
To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net Subject: Re: [gsp-l] New Topic From: reflectiongsps@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 17:05:40 -0400 Though in general I agree with you Robert, what I am interested in knowing is if there is a noticeable difference in the behavior/mannerisms and attitudes of the Kennel Building raised pup that remain to adulthood.
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
-----Original Message----- From: Robert H Johnston
To: gsp-l
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 3:41 pm
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] New Topic
House dogs are almost always better than kennel dogs, other things being equal. You need wonder no longer. Bob Johnston
To: gsp-l@shorthairs.netSubject: [gsp-l] New Topic From: reflectiongsps@aol.comDate: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 16:32:50 -0400
This is something I have been wondering about for quite a while...
I would be interested in knowing what other breeders feel is the difference, if any, in the mental development of a puppy that is Kennel Building raised as opposed to In Home raised.
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
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reflectiongsps
MH
Posts:155
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| 08/05/2011 1:15 AM |
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Thank you Carol, you have given me some good ideas to do with this upcoming litter. I have a 16' x 20' puppy pen that would be perfect for what you described below. I will definitely look into purchasing some play equipment for the pups to climb on and around, currently they have a huge old stump to play on, but I think the plastic equipment would definitely be a benefit. Give them new surfaces to explore and get use to... The daily handling has always been a part of what I do, but I had not thought about the individual play time and will definitely do that this time.
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
refleksion@att.net
-----Original Message-----
From: whiteslinegsp
To: gsp-l
Sent: Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:53 am
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] New Topic
I handle each pup every day starting on the second day, picking them up and gently laying them on thier back touching feet and ears and talking to them. From about the seventh day I take them one by one to another room and do the same thing but for about 3-5 minutes and extend the lengh of time away from their mother every week. They have a kennel run when they are old enough and the weather permits that has a large ball, a small teeter only about three inches off the ground, a milk crate, several different doors mats of different surfaces, a parking cone and a hard plastic container lid about 3X4 feet with two inches deep with water in it. I also separate the pups at approx. 4 weeks, letting them play alone for a little while and that time also increases with their age.. Crate training starts gradually around 4 weeks.
In my experience this is also good for the bitch, she has complete trust that her babies will be okay and coming back and it gives the pups a little independence.
It is a lot of work but the rewards are many.
Carol
Interesting... I had not thought about the influence the mothers temperament has on a litter...would explain alot with the temperament issues I have with two of my girls...both have the same mother, and if memory serves, the first time I saw their mother, she was totally wired and uncontrollable, and was laughingly told that that was her nature. But then her mother, thinking back to when I owned her for a time, was the same way. Hmm...makes sense.
About the Modified Temperament Testing Activities...what do you do? What kind of activities? I home raise all my pups, first in the spare bedroom until their eyes open, then into the kitchen, then part of the day outside after they turn 5 weeks old, so it has not been an issue, but I would be very interested to know how you test them and what activities you do with them.
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
-----Original Message-----
From: whiteslinegsp < whiteslinegsp@aol.com>
To: gsp-l < gsp-l@shorthairs.net>
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 5:49 pm
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] New Topic
While I strongly agree that a home raised litter gets more exposure to the different smells, sounds etc. of the home and the people around them, I believe there are other influences that also develope a well adjusted puppy/dog. I truly believe the temperament of the mother has a great deal to do with the temperament of the litter since their first weeks are spent mostly with her. Hands on from day one, modified temperament test activities, I think are a wonderful help for a well adjusted puppy/dog. I also believe that regardless of where a litter is whelped and lives initially, they need as much exposure to new places, travel, sounds, surfaces and people as possible ( after they have had their shots). JMO
Carol White
-----Original Message-----
From: dise454 < dise454@aol.com>
To: gsp-l < gsp-l@shorthairs.net>
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 6:12 pm
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] New Topic
Anne,
I have never raised a puppy in a kennel, but I would think the puppies would have much less personal interaction and less attention given to them. Ultimately this could create temperament problems if not socialized properly. I'm sure that a well run kennel would find ways to work through these challenges.
-----Original Message-----
From: reflectiongsps < reflectiongsps@aol.com>
To: gsp-l < gsp-l@shorthairs.net>
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 12:34 pm
Subject: [gsp-l] New Topic
This is something I have been wondering about for quite a while...
I would be interested in knowing what other breeders feel is the difference, if any, in the mental development of a puppy that is Kennel Building raised as opposed to In Home raised.
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
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woodshafengsps
MH
Posts:73
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| 08/05/2011 1:17 AM |
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Robert,Thank you so much for the laugh this morning !!
Imprinting is a very important step in a puppies development.IMO, A kennel raised puppy can imprint very well with sufficent human bonding.
I have seen some issues arise with kennel raised puppies adapting well to outside stimulous when removed from their kennel area,, This is usually attributed to the lack of proper socializing of places before the age of 9 weeks of age.
I read somewhere, and anyone please correct me if I'm wrong that there seems to be a period (around 9 weeks of age) in which a puppy seems to learn trust,and confidence.
I always make it a point to get a puppy out into public areas by the time they are 9 weeks of age, and I have yet to have a shy ,or timid dog with trust issues.
Laura Wood
Woods Hafen GSP's
From: Robert H Johnston
To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net
Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 12:14:07 AM
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] New Topic
There is a condition known as kennel blindness marked by an indifference to people which is supposed to be permanent. The puppy has a period of time during which it receives input as to what are the significant others in it's life. If there are no humans around during that period the puppy loses it's chance to imprint on people. If the puppy is raised in the house where there are presumably people it will accept people as natural companions the rest of it's life. This imprinting is common to a number of species, ducks, geese, horses, humans and so on. Being in a kennel does not mean a puppy cannot imprint only that special efforts should be taken to handle the puppy and play with it, putting a kid in the kennel with the puppies works well, the puppy is imprinted and you're rid of the kid for six weeks. JOKE! I wouldn't want to be blacklisted by the ladies, I use that term advisedly as someone on the list pointed out they
had "b*lls". Since we are deciding who is adequate to post on the list I'd like to mention a few things. There are CANADIANS on the list, they are definitely foreigners, they should be expunged from the list at once! Well, maybe one exception, Arwen Dabb still has time ticking on her imprint opportunity, maybe we should draw stra.., no by gosh, I volunteer to help her. Then there are the Texans on the list, a kookier collection of bloated egos does not exist, they must go! Now everyone knows that the Arizonans and New Mexicans are in the country illegally, back to Mexico with them! If miscegenation isn't a crime it ought to be so any listers with white Pointers masquerading as shorthairs will be run off the list! Anybody left? Put them on probation, we'll get them later. All my best, Bob
To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net Subject: Re: [gsp-l] New Topic From: reflectiongsps@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 17:05:40 -0400 Though in general I agree with you Robert, what I am interested in knowing is if there is a noticeable difference in the behavior/mannerisms and attitudes of the Kennel Building raised pup that remain to adulthood.
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
-----Original Message----- From: Robert H Johnston
To: gsp-l
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 3:41 pm
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] New Topic
House dogs are almost always better than kennel dogs, other things being equal. You need wonder no longer. Bob Johnston
To: gsp-l@shorthairs.netSubject: [gsp-l] New Topic From: reflectiongsps@aol.comDate: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 16:32:50 -0400
This is something I have been wondering about for quite a while...
I would be interested in knowing what other breeders feel is the difference, if any, in the mental development of a puppy that is Kennel Building raised as opposed to In Home raised.
Anne M Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
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Gspdoo
MH
Posts:326
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| 08/05/2011 1:26 AM |
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Anne -- You can easily make a little teeter by taking a square of 1/4 inch
plywood (I think 24 inches comes pre-cut at Home Depot) -- put an old tennis
ball underneath in the middle -- drive a large nail into the ball where it
touches the board.Won't last forever, but certainly long enough for the puppies
to outgrow it. It's amazing how quickly they start to run right over it --
clompity clomp -- without even noticing that it moved.
Sandra
In a message dated 7/13/2011 8:32:12 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
reflectiongsps@aol.com writes:
Thank
you Carol, you have given me some good ideas to do with this upcoming
litter. I have a 16' x 20' puppy pen that would be perfect for what you
described below. I will definitely look into purchasing some play
equipment for the pups to climb on and around, currently they have a huge old
stump to play on, but I think the plastic equipment would definitely be a
benefit. Give them new surfaces to explore and get use to...
The daily handling has always been a part of what I do, but I had not thought
about the individual play time and will definitely do that this time.
Anne M
Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
refleksion@att.net
-----Original
Message----- From: whiteslinegsp
To: gsp-l
Sent: Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:53 am
Subject:
Re: [gsp-l] New Topic
I handle each pup every day starting on the second day, picking them up
and gently laying them on thier back touching feet and ears and talking to
them. From about the seventh day I take them one by one to another room and do
the same thing but for about 3-5 minutes and extend the lengh of time away
from their mother every week. They have a kennel run when they are old enough
and the weather permits that has a large ball, a small teeter only
about three inches off the ground, a milk crate, several different doors
mats of different surfaces, a parking cone and a hard plastic container lid
about 3X4 feet with two inches deep with water in it. I also
separate the pups at approx. 4 weeks, letting them play alone for a
little while and that time also increases with their age.. Crate training
starts gradually around 4 weeks.
In my experience this is also good for the bitch, she has complete trust
that her babies will be okay and coming back and it gives the pups a little
independence.
It is a lot of work but the rewards are many.
Carol
Interesting... I had not thought about the influence the mothers
temperament has on a litter...would explain alot with the temperament issues I
have with two of my girls...both have the same mother, and if memory serves,
the first time I saw their mother, she was totally wired and uncontrollable,
and was laughingly told that that was her nature. But then her mother,
thinking back to when I owned her for a time, was the same way.
Hmm...makes sense.
About the Modified Temperament Testing
Activities...what do you do? What kind of activities? I home raise
all my pups, first in the spare bedroom until their eyes open, then into the
kitchen, then part of the day outside after they turn 5 weeks old, so it has
not been an issue, but I would be very interested to know how you test them
and what activities you do with them.
Anne M
Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
-----Original
Message----- From: whiteslinegsp < whiteslinegsp@aol.com> To: gsp-l
< gsp-l@shorthairs.net> Sent: Tue,
Jul 12, 2011 5:49 pm Subject: Re: [gsp-l] New Topic
While I strongly agree
that a home raised litter gets more exposure to the different smells, sounds
etc. of the home and the people around them, I believe there
are other influences that also develope a well adjusted puppy/dog. I truly
believe the temperament of the mother has a great deal to do with the
temperament of the litter since their first weeks are spent mostly with
her. Hands on from day one, modified temperament test activities, I think
are a wonderful help for a well adjusted puppy/dog. I also believe
that regardless of where a litter is whelped and lives initially, they
need as much exposure to new places, travel, sounds, surfaces and people as
possible ( after they have had their shots). JMO
Carol White
-----Original
Message----- From: dise454 < dise454@aol.com> To: gsp-l < gsp-l@shorthairs.net> Sent: Tue,
Jul 12, 2011 6:12 pm Subject: Re: [gsp-l] New Topic
Anne,
I have never raised a puppy in a kennel, but I would think the puppies
would have much less personal interaction and less attention given to them.
Ultimately this could create temperament problems if not socialized
properly. I'm sure that a well run kennel would find ways to work
through these challenges.
-----Original Message-----
From:
reflectiongsps < reflectiongsps@aol.com> To:
gsp-l < gsp-l@shorthairs.net> Sent: Tue,
Jul 12, 2011 12:34 pm Subject: [gsp-l] New Topic
This is something I have been wondering about for quite a while...
I would be interested in knowing what other breeders feel is the
difference, if any, in the mental development of a puppy that is Kennel
Building raised as opposed to In Home raised.
Anne M
Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7843
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| 08/05/2011 1:28 AM |
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| You can also use different sizes of PVC for the bottom of the teeter. I made one that was for them when they first opened their eyes and then made one that was a little longer and higher when they were older. They loved it. I also made a baby dog walk, and for the tunnel I used duct tape to put two flower pots together. I used bricks to stabilize the pots and keep them from rolling, but the puppies figured out how to move the bricks and would get in the pots and roll them everywhere. I also had one pup that would get on top of the pot tunnel and would roll it walking on top like someone walking on a log. The favorite from my last litter was the baby dog walk.
Bev Q --- On Wed, 7/13/11, Gspdoo@aol.com wrote:
From: Gspdoo@aol.com
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] New Topic
To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net
Cc: Mariahgsps@aol.com
Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 6:00 PM
Anne -- You can easily make a little teeter by taking a square of 1/4 inch
plywood (I think 24 inches comes pre-cut at Home Depot) -- put an old tennis
ball underneath in the middle -- drive a large nail into the ball where it
touches the board.Won't last forever, but certainly long enough for the puppies
to outgrow it. It's amazing how quickly they start to run right over it --
clompity clomp -- without even noticing that it moved.
Sandra
In a message dated 7/13/2011 8:32:12 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
reflectiongsps@aol.com writes:
Thank
you Carol, you have given me some good ideas to do with this upcoming
litter. I have a 16' x 20' puppy pen that would be perfect for what you
described below. I will definitely look into purchasing some play
equipment for the pups to climb on and around, currently they have a huge old
stump to play on, but I think the plastic equipment would definitely be a
benefit. Give them new surfaces to explore and get use to...
The daily handling has always been a part of what I do, but I had not thought
about the individual play time and will definitely do that this time.
Anne M
Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
refleksion@att.net
-----Original
Message----- From: whiteslinegsp
To: gsp-l
Sent: Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:53 am
Subject:
Re: [gsp-l] New Topic
I handle each pup every day starting on the second day, picking them up
and gently laying them on thier back touching feet and ears and talking to
them. From about the seventh day I take them one by one to another room and do
the same thing but for about 3-5 minutes and extend the lengh of time away
from their mother every week. They have a kennel run when they are old enough
and the weather permits that has a large ball, a small teeter only
about three inches off the ground, a milk crate, several different doors
mats of different surfaces, a parking cone and a hard plastic container lid
about 3X4 feet with two inches deep with water in it. I also
separate the pups at approx. 4 weeks, letting them play alone for a
little while and that time also increases with their age.. Crate training
starts gradually around 4 weeks.
In my experience this is also good for the bitch, she has complete trust
that her babies will be okay and coming back and it gives the pups a little
independence.
It is a lot of work but the rewards are many.
Carol
Interesting... I had not thought about the influence the mothers
temperament has on a litter...would explain alot with the temperament issues I
have with two of my girls...both have the same mother, and if memory serves,
the first time I saw their mother, she was totally wired and uncontrollable,
and was laughingly told that that was her nature. But then her mother,
thinking back to when I owned her for a time, was the same way.
Hmm...makes sense.
About the Modified Temperament Testing
Activities...what do you do? What kind of activities? I home raise
all my pups, first in the spare bedroom until their eyes open, then into the
kitchen, then part of the day outside after they turn 5 weeks old, so it has
not been an issue, but I would be very interested to know how you test them
and what activities you do with them.
Anne M
Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
-----Original
Message----- From: whiteslinegsp < whiteslinegsp@aol.com> To: gsp-l
< gsp-l@shorthairs.net> Sent: Tue,
Jul 12, 2011 5:49 pm Subject: Re: [gsp-l] New Topic
While I strongly agree
that a home raised litter gets more exposure to the different smells, sounds
etc. of the home and the people around them, I believe there
are other influences that also develope a well adjusted puppy/dog. I truly
believe the temperament of the mother has a great deal to do with the
temperament of the litter since their first weeks are spent mostly with
her. Hands on from day one, modified temperament test activities, I think
are a wonderful help for a well adjusted puppy/dog. I also believe
that regardless of where a litter is whelped and lives initially, they
need as much exposure to new places, travel, sounds, surfaces and people as
possible ( after they have had their shots). JMO
Carol White
-----Original
Message----- From: dise454 < dise454@aol.com> To: gsp-l < gsp-l@shorthairs.net> Sent: Tue,
Jul 12, 2011 6:12 pm Subject: Re: [gsp-l] New Topic
Anne,
I have never raised a puppy in a kennel, but I would think the puppies
would have much less personal interaction and less attention given to them.
Ultimately this could create temperament problems if not socialized
properly. I'm sure that a well run kennel would find ways to work
through these challenges.
-----Original Message-----
From:
reflectiongsps < reflectiongsps@aol.com> To:
gsp-l < gsp-l@shorthairs.net> Sent: Tue,
Jul 12, 2011 12:34 pm Subject: [gsp-l] New Topic
This is something I have been wondering about for quite a while...
I would be interested in knowing what other breeders feel is the
difference, if any, in the mental development of a puppy that is Kennel
Building raised as opposed to In Home raised.
Anne M
Cohen ~ Refleksion, reg.
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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copperhunts
Posts:8
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| 08/05/2011 1:28 AM |
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I've done something similar and called it a wobble board. You can use a square board and put a piece of PVC pipe or a ball in the middle on the bottom. Our GSP puppy took a long time to like the wobble board but the coonhound puppy would run up to it and bounce around. (These are older puppies, over 8 weeks as I haven't had a litter.) A trainer recently told me that she feels a puppy should have encountered 10 different surfaces and 100 different people by the time they are 6 months old. Teresa L with 1 shorthair |
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