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| Author |
Messages |
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shomberg2
MH
Posts:120
 |
| 07/19/2007 7:11 AM |
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Cathy,
What I can tell you is that I know of no specific marker myself that would
indicate whether a dog or a bitch is pre-dispoed to produce only solid liver
puppies. That doesn't mean that one doesn't exist but at this time the markers
are limited to only 14 and color isn't one of them that I know for sure.
Here is what I am able to say.
Monroe was the product of two solid livers that were bred and this shocks
many people who hear it.This is one of my primary reasons for telling people not
to be afraid of breeding a solid liver because you can produce liver, white
and ticked puppies that just might be exactly what you hope to
produce. Both the sire and the dam in this combination had liver,
white and ticked sires and solid liver dams. Monroe's litter included 3
ticked and patched males and her, the only ticked bitch. The other pups were
liver with small bits of white on the chest area.
The repeat breeding gave us 3 solid liver males and 6 liver bitches and
only 1 liver, white and ticked bitch.
Monroe's sister, Ch.Shomberg 'N Partrideg Run Dark Duet, a liver bitch, was
bred to a brightly ticked male/no body patches. She produced 10 liver puppies
with various white markings that included one with a white face blaze and white
belly hair. the face blaze was never seen before by most breeders that I
questioned. To this day he still has the face blaze but is primarily "solid
liver". I laughingly tell people that some of these puppies tried
really hard to be ticked - ha, ha.
I am told that there are two genes for producing liver and that one
produces liver with some small areas of white ( forechest, toes, etc.) and that
the other produces only true solid liver with no white at all. I have been
told that this is the more un-common of the two but surely does exist.
I believe that when you get into the genetics of coat color it can be very
involved and I feel that it just cannot be all that predictable as hard as we
might try. Often times it can be a true roll of the dice  The bottom line is to breed the best two dogs you feel in your own mind
compliment one another and that will produce the very best combination of
structure, GSP type and the "style" that you might like to have and
then......... just allow it to happen as it happens.
Good luck with your breedings !!
Sharon
Sharon & Steve Dattilio
"Shomberg" , AKC
Reg.
Breeders of Multiple Best In Show and National Award Winning
GSPs
www.ShombergGSP.com
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. |
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|
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|
CathyYak
MH
Posts:963
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| 07/19/2007 8:32 AM |
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Sharon,
I am knowledgeable enough on coat color to understand inheritance. By
the way, my dogs seem to be ones who do not produce livers with those large
white chest patches, or white on the feet. The question I had was whether
the DNA certificate from AKC could indicate a homozygous solid dog. That
was quickly answered with a resounding "no" by a few helpful people on the
list. Thanks for the answer from those who provided it. I appreciate
the knowledgeable people on this list often saving me hours of internet
searching .
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. |
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Cathy Iacopelli
Claddagh Kennels
Long Island, New York |
|
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CathyYak
MH
Posts:963
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| 07/19/2007 8:49 AM |
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In a message dated 7/19/2007 9:04:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
SHOMBERG2@aol.com writes
<<Monroe was the product of two solid livers that were bred
and this shocks many people who hear it>>
I wonder why that would shock anyone? I guess for all of the
information available on coat color/pattern inheritance people still just
don't get it? This is definitely backed up by the people who are
discussing the black and white issue. So many people don't get that you
can't get a solid from two ticked parents, or a black and white from two liver
parents, even if there is one in the second generation back.
Maybe it would be a good idea to ask the GSPCA to include a page on the web
site explaining this so that anyone who DOES have a black and white from two
supposedly liver parents, or anyone with a solid liver from two ticked parents
(and I mean pups born solid liver, who are truly genetically solid, not pups who
were born liver and white and filled in to appear solid), who is either not
grasping the idea, or who has been deceived by their breeder on the parentage of
their pup can figure out the truth of the matter.
I have a pup now from my solid liver male and a ticked dam who is getting
so dark that will likely appear solid once her coat color is set at
maturity. I wanted a liver and white dog, but I can't seem to get one
no matter what I try . She may appear solid as an adult, and
people will likely assume she will produce solid pups, but she will not unless
bred to a solid male, because genetically she is not solid.
<>
Sharon, was this bitch bred more than once? Perhaps she is homozygous
for solid? I guess we will just have to wait and see if our dogs whose
parents are both solid produce ticked pups in/when they are bred. Another
mystery to unravel. I hate not having the answers .
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. |
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Cathy Iacopelli
Claddagh Kennels
Long Island, New York |
|
|
Almost Heaven GSP
Springfield, WV
MH
Posts:731
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| 07/19/2007 10:14 AM |
|
| Excellent post Sharon and Cathy!
Have either of you heard of a Solid Liver "White Blocker"? This is
something I've recently heard suggested, that I assume would be a
homozygous Liver, that will only produce Solid Liver?.?.?. That is how
I understood it anyway. I haven't found any info on it in searching,
but it is a curious suggestion....
Bruce Shaffer
Quoting CathyYak@aol.com:
>
>
> In a message dated 7/19/2007 9:04:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> SHOMBERG2@aol.com writes
>
> < many people who hear it>>
>
>
> I wonder why that would shock anyone? I guess for all of the information
> available on coat color/pattern inheritance people still just don't get it?
> This is definitely backed up by the people who are discussing the black and
> white issue. So many people don't get that you can't get a solid from two
> ticked parents, or a black and white from two liver parents, even
> if there is one
> in the second generation back.
>
> Maybe it would be a good idea to ask the GSPCA to include a page on the web
> site explaining this so that anyone who DOES have a black and white from two
> supposedly liver parents, or anyone with a solid liver from two
> ticked parents
> (and I mean pups born solid liver, who are truly genetically solid, not pups
> who were born liver and white and filled in to appear solid), who is either
> not grasping the idea, or who has been deceived by their breeder on the
> parentage of their pup can figure out the truth of the matter.
>
> I have a pup now from my solid liver male and a ticked dam who is getting so
> dark that will likely appear solid once her coat color is set at maturity.
> I wanted a liver and white dog, but I can't seem to get one no matter what I
> try . She may appear solid as an adult, and people will likely
> assume she
> will produce solid pups, but she will not unless bred to a solid male,
> because genetically she is not solid.
>
> < was bred to a brightly ticked male/no body patches. She produced 10 liver
> puppies with various white markings that included one with a white
> face blaze and
> white belly hair.>>
>
> Sharon, was this bitch bred more than once? Perhaps she is homozygous for
> solid? I guess we will just have to wait and see if our dogs whose parents
> are both solid produce ticked pups in/when they are bred. Another
> mystery to
> unravel. I hate not having the answers .
>
> Cathy Iacopelli
> _Claddagh Kennels_ (http://www.claddaghkennels.com/)
> German Shorthaired Pointers
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>
|
|
Money will buy a fine dog, but only kindness will make him wag his tail.
Bruce Shaffer
Almost Heaven GSP's
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david.nauer
MH
Posts:125
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| 07/19/2007 11:10 AM |
|
Great post. Here is a link on the
internet (take it for what it is) that discusses the solid liver genetics taken
from Georgia Byrne’s
“Der Deutsch Kurzhaar, The German Shorthaired Pointer”.
http://www.dogstuff.info/coat_colour_gsp_byrne.html
I am certain many on this list already
understand these genetics, but this is an excellent discussion for those that
might not be as familiar with this part of the GSP’s genetic makeup.
Dave in Colorado
VoyagerGSPs
From:
gsp-l-request@web.whc.net [mailto:gsp-l-request@web.whc.net] On Behalf Of SHOMBERG2@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 7:03
AM
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Subject: [gsp-l] DNA question/coat
color
What I can tell you is that I know of no
specific marker myself that would indicate whether a dog or a bitch is
pre-dispoed to produce only solid liver puppies. That doesn't mean that one
doesn't exist but at this time the markers are limited to only 14 and color
isn't one of them that I know for sure.
Here is what I am able to say.
Monroe was the product of two solid livers that were bred and this
shocks many people who hear it.This is one of my primary reasons for telling
people not to be afraid of breeding a solid liver because you can
produce liver, white and ticked puppies that just might be exactly what
you hope to produce. Both the sire and the dam in this
combination had liver, white and ticked sires and solid liver dams. Monroe's litter included 3 ticked and patched males and her, the only ticked bitch. The
other pups were liver with small bits of white on the chest area.
The repeat breeding gave us 3 solid liver
males and 6 liver bitches and only 1 liver, white and ticked bitch.
Monroe's sister, Ch.Shomberg 'N Partrideg Run Dark Duet, a liver bitch,
was bred to a brightly ticked male/no body patches. She produced 10 liver
puppies with various white markings that included one with a white face blaze
and white belly hair. the face blaze was never seen before by most
breeders that I questioned. To this day he still has the face blaze but is
primarily "solid liver". I laughingly tell people that some of
these puppies tried really hard to be ticked - ha, ha.
I am told that there are two genes for
producing liver and that one produces liver with some small areas of white (
forechest, toes, etc.) and that the other produces only true solid liver with
no white at all. I have been told that this is the more un-common of the
two but surely does exist.
I believe that when you get into the
genetics of coat color it can be very involved and I feel that it just cannot
be all that predictable as hard as we might try. Often times it can be a true
roll of the dice
The bottom line is to breed the best two
dogs you feel in your own mind compliment one another and that will produce the
very best combination of structure, GSP type and the "style"
that you might like to have and then......... just allow it to happen as
it happens.
Good luck with your breedings !!
Sharon & Steve Dattilio
"Shomberg" , AKC Reg.
Breeders of Multiple Best In Show and National Award Winning GSPs
www.ShombergGSP.com
Get a
sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.
|
|
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|
nuthatch
MH
Posts:82
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| 07/19/2007 11:12 AM |
|
| Becca, Am Can Ch Shomberg N Partridge Run Tribecca, Monroe's full sister has produced two litters of ten solid liver pups (bred to a ticked dog both times) with not a ticked one in sight. We're guessing she is homozygous for solid although it is theroetically possible that she is heterzygous and we just haven't been lucky/unlucky (depending on your perspective - I've enjoyed having nothing but solids except when it comes to identifying the wee monsters ).
Heather & the Nuthatch Gang
________________________________________________________________
Sent via the WebMail system at aztec-net.com
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kmkshorthairs
MH
Posts:73
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| 07/19/2007 11:44 AM |
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| Bruce;
I have a few Solid Liver dogs. Some of them are Heterozygous for Liver
and some of them are Homozygous for Liver.
My Homozygous Liver dogs have little or no white on them. When bred to
White & Liver Ticked dog they will produce all Liver Puppies. (All of
these Liver Puppies should be Heterozygous for Liver) When bred to a
Heterozygous Liver dog they will also produce all Liver puppies. (Some
of the Liver Puppies may be Heterozygous for Liver & some of the Liver
Puppies may also be Homozygous for Liver).
My Heterozygous Liver dogs have a more prominent blaze on their Chest
&/or Belly &/or Toes. When bred to White & Liver Ticked dog they will
produce both Liver Puppies & Liver & White Patched Ticked Puppies. When
Bred to a Heterozygous Liver dog they will produce both Liver Puppies &
Liver & White Patched Ticked Puppies (Some of the Liver Puppies may be
Heterozygous for Liver & some of the Liver Puppies may also be
Homozygous for Liver). When bred to Homozygous Liver dogs they will
produce all Liver puppies. (Some of the Liver Puppies may be
Heterozygous for Liver & some of the Liver Puppies may also be
Homozygous for Liver).
I have not personally bred 2 Homozygous Liver dogs together. I'm not
100% on this but theoretically I think you might get all Homozygous
Liver puppies if you did. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong
on this particular breeding example.
Kitty Keiner
KMK Shorthairs
Competitive Companions for Field & Show
Visit Our Web-Site at http://www.kmkshorthairs.com/index.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: gsp-l-request@web.whc.net [mailto:gsp-l-request@web.whc.net] On
Behalf Of blshaffer@frontiernet.net
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 11:06 AM
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] DNA question/coat color
Excellent post Sharon and Cathy!
Have either of you heard of a Solid Liver "White Blocker"? This is
something I've recently heard suggested, that I assume would be a
homozygous Liver, that will only produce Solid Liver?.?.?. That is how
I understood it anyway. I haven't found any info on it in searching,
but it is a curious suggestion....
Bruce Shaffer
Quoting CathyYak@aol.com:
>
>
> In a message dated 7/19/2007 9:04:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> SHOMBERG2@aol.com writes
>
> < many people who hear it>>
>
>
> I wonder why that would shock anyone? I guess for all of the
information
> available on coat color/pattern inheritance people still just don't
get it?
> This is definitely backed up by the people who are discussing the
black and
> white issue. So many people don't get that you can't get a solid
from two
> ticked parents, or a black and white from two liver parents, even
> if there is one
> in the second generation back.
>
> Maybe it would be a good idea to ask the GSPCA to include a page on
the web
> site explaining this so that anyone who DOES have a black and white
from two
> supposedly liver parents, or anyone with a solid liver from two
> ticked parents
> (and I mean pups born solid liver, who are truly genetically solid,
not pups
> who were born liver and white and filled in to appear solid), who is
either
> not grasping the idea, or who has been deceived by their breeder on
the
> parentage of their pup can figure out the truth of the matter.
>
> I have a pup now from my solid liver male and a ticked dam who is
getting so
> dark that will likely appear solid once her coat color is set at
maturity.
> I wanted a liver and white dog, but I can't seem to get one no matter
what I
> try . She may appear solid as an adult, and people will likely
> assume she
> will produce solid pups, but she will not unless bred to a solid
male,
> because genetically she is not solid.
>
> < was bred to a brightly ticked male/no body patches. She produced 10
liver
> puppies with various white markings that included one with a white
> face blaze and
> white belly hair.>>
>
> Sharon, was this bitch bred more than once? Perhaps she is homozygous
for
> solid? I guess we will just have to wait and see if our dogs whose
parents
> are both solid produce ticked pups in/when they are bred. Another
> mystery to
> unravel. I hate not having the answers .
>
> Cathy Iacopelli
> _Claddagh Kennels_ (http://www.claddaghkennels.com/)
> German Shorthaired Pointers
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new
AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>
|
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|
Almost Heaven GSP
Springfield, WV
MH
Posts:731
|
| 07/19/2007 12:34 PM |
|
| Thanx Kindly Kitty!
It would appear then, that what I had assumed based on what I know
of genetics is accurate and this "white blocker" is simply a
Homozygous Liver and good ol' Mendel's theories apply. This "white
blocker" was portrayed to me, as some new and mysterious thing! LOL!
Thanx Kindly Again and Have A Great Day,
Bruce
Quoting Kitty Keiner :
> Bruce;
>
> I have a few Solid Liver dogs. Some of them are Heterozygous for Liver
> and some of them are Homozygous for Liver.
>
> My Homozygous Liver dogs have little or no white on them. When bred to
> White & Liver Ticked dog they will produce all Liver Puppies. (All of
> these Liver Puppies should be Heterozygous for Liver) When bred to a
> Heterozygous Liver dog they will also produce all Liver puppies. (Some
> of the Liver Puppies may be Heterozygous for Liver & some of the Liver
> Puppies may also be Homozygous for Liver).
>
> My Heterozygous Liver dogs have a more prominent blaze on their Chest
> &/or Belly &/or Toes. When bred to White & Liver Ticked dog they will
> produce both Liver Puppies & Liver & White Patched Ticked Puppies. When
> Bred to a Heterozygous Liver dog they will produce both Liver Puppies &
> Liver & White Patched Ticked Puppies (Some of the Liver Puppies may be
> Heterozygous for Liver & some of the Liver Puppies may also be
> Homozygous for Liver). When bred to Homozygous Liver dogs they will
> produce all Liver puppies. (Some of the Liver Puppies may be
> Heterozygous for Liver & some of the Liver Puppies may also be
> Homozygous for Liver).
>
> I have not personally bred 2 Homozygous Liver dogs together. I'm not
> 100% on this but theoretically I think you might get all Homozygous
> Liver puppies if you did. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong
> on this particular breeding example.
>
>
>
> Kitty Keiner
> KMK Shorthairs
> Competitive Companions for Field & Show
> Visit Our Web-Site at http://www.kmkshorthairs.com/index.htm
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gsp-l-request@web.whc.net [mailto:gsp-l-request@web.whc.net] On
> Behalf Of blshaffer@frontiernet.net
> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 11:06 AM
> To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
> Subject: Re: [gsp-l] DNA question/coat color
>
> Excellent post Sharon and Cathy!
> Have either of you heard of a Solid Liver "White Blocker"? This is
> something I've recently heard suggested, that I assume would be a
> homozygous Liver, that will only produce Solid Liver?.?.?. That is how
> I understood it anyway. I haven't found any info on it in searching,
> but it is a curious suggestion....
>
> Bruce Shaffer
>
> Quoting CathyYak@aol.com:
>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 7/19/2007 9:04:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> SHOMBERG2@aol.com writes
>>
>> < shocks
>> many people who hear it>>
>>
>>
>> I wonder why that would shock anyone? I guess for all of the
> information
>> available on coat color/pattern inheritance people still just don't
> get it?
>> This is definitely backed up by the people who are discussing the
> black and
>> white issue. So many people don't get that you can't get a solid
> from two
>> ticked parents, or a black and white from two liver parents, even
>> if there is one
>> in the second generation back.
>>
>> Maybe it would be a good idea to ask the GSPCA to include a page on
> the web
>> site explaining this so that anyone who DOES have a black and white
> from two
>> supposedly liver parents, or anyone with a solid liver from two
>> ticked parents
>> (and I mean pups born solid liver, who are truly genetically solid,
> not pups
>> who were born liver and white and filled in to appear solid), who is
> either
>> not grasping the idea, or who has been deceived by their breeder on
> the
>> parentage of their pup can figure out the truth of the matter.
>>
>> I have a pup now from my solid liver male and a ticked dam who is
> getting so
>> dark that will likely appear solid once her coat color is set at
> maturity.
>> I wanted a liver and white dog, but I can't seem to get one no matter
> what I
>> try . She may appear solid as an adult, and people will likely
>> assume she
>> will produce solid pups, but she will not unless bred to a solid
> male,
>> because genetically she is not solid.
>>
>> < bitch,
>> was bred to a brightly ticked male/no body patches. She produced 10
> liver
>> puppies with various white markings that included one with a white
>> face blaze and
>> white belly hair.>>
>>
>> Sharon, was this bitch bred more than once? Perhaps she is homozygous
> for
>> solid? I guess we will just have to wait and see if our dogs whose
> parents
>> are both solid produce ticked pups in/when they are bred. Another
>> mystery to
>> unravel. I hate not having the answers .
>>
>> Cathy Iacopelli
>> _Claddagh Kennels_ (http://www.claddaghkennels.com/)
>> German Shorthaired Pointers
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new
> AOL at
>> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>>
>
>
|
|
Money will buy a fine dog, but only kindness will make him wag his tail.
Bruce Shaffer
Almost Heaven GSP's
|
|
|
shortales
MH
Posts:336
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| 07/19/2007 1:15 PM |
|
Thanks Dave Georgina's explanation of coat color in GSP's is the best I have read as it is easy for all to understand. As Sharon said there are 2 genes which contribute to the GSP. One is color (B=black and b= brown) and the other is pattern (S=solid and s= non solid (either ticked or non ticked)). Just to add something to think and talk about. BLACK. As you can see from the above and from Georgina's site that Dave listed below Black isn't Scary. I have heard people say if we (GSPCA) votes in black all the dogs will end up black. This just isn't true. You will always know where the black gene is as the dog will be black! If the dog is heterozygous (Bb) the dog will be black. So if you breed a heterozygous black dog (Bb) to another heterozygous black dog (Bb) you will get 3/4 of the litter black (1/4 BB, 1/2 Bb) and then you will get 1/4 BROWN (bb). These numbers might not hold true for 1 litter as you need
a larger total number (X=100) for the numbers to be that. But as you can see you will never have a "Hidden" black as even the heterozygous (Bb) for black will be black (have the phenotype (what it looks like) for black). The inheritance of black/brown coat color is rather simple unlike say Hip Dysplasia which is polygenic (more that 1 gene to effect the phenotype. I will go on the record as one that will support the Black vote. Although that doesn't mean that just because a dog is black it should be bred. Just as I feel that just because a dog has a title CH. DCH, JH, CD etc. it should be bred! THE "HERO FOR HEALTH" T- shirts are HERE! Contact Cathy Iacopelli. Thanks Cathy for starting this thread. Leita
"Nauer, David J (Dave)" wrote: Great post. Here is a link on the internet (take it for what it is) that discusses the solid liver genetics taken from Georgia Byrnes
Der Deutsch
Kurzhaar, The German Shorthaired Pointer. I am certain many on this list already understand these genetics, but this is an excellent discussion for those that might not be as familiar with this part of the GSPs genetic makeup.
Dave in Colorado
VoyagerGSPs
From: gsp-l-request@web.whc.net [mailto:gsp-l-request@web.whc.net] On Behalf Of
SHOMBERG2@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 7:03 AM
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Subject: [gsp-l] DNA question/coat color What I can tell you is that I know of no specific marker myself that would indicate whether a dog or a bitch is pre-dispoed to produce only solid liver puppies. That doesn't mean that one doesn't exist but at this time the markers are limited to only 14 and color isn't one of
them that I know for sure. Here is what I am able to say. Monroe was the product of two solid livers that were bred and this shocks many people who hear it.This is one of my primary reasons for telling people not to be afraid of breeding a solid liver because you can produce liver, white and ticked puppies that just might be exactly what you hope to produce. Both the sire and the dam in
this combination had liver, white and ticked sires and solid liver dams. Monroe's litter included 3 ticked and patched males and her, the only ticked bitch. The other pups were liver with small bits of white on the chest area. The repeat breeding gave us 3 solid liver males and 6 liver bitches and only 1 liver, white and ticked bitch. Monroe's sister, Ch.Shomberg 'N Partrideg Run Dark
Duet, a liver bitch, was bred to a brightly ticked male/no body patches. She produced 10 liver puppies with various white markings that included one with a white face blaze and white belly hair. the face blaze was never seen before by most breeders that I questioned. To this day he still has the face blaze but is primarily "solid liver". I laughingly tell people that some of these puppies tried really hard to be ticked - ha, ha. I am told that there are two genes for producing liver and that one produces liver with some small areas of white ( forechest, toes, etc.) and that the other produces only true solid liver with no white at all. I
have been told that this is the more un-common of the two but surely does exist. I believe that when you get into the genetics of coat color it can be very involved and I feel that it just cannot be all that predictable as hard as we might try. Often times it can be a true roll of the dice The bottom line is to breed the best two dogs you feel in your own mind compliment one another and that will produce the very best combination of structure, GSP type and the "style" that you might like to have and then......... just allow it to happen as it happens. Good luck with your breedings !! Sharon & Steve
Dattilio
"Shomberg" , AKC Reg.
Breeders of Multiple Best In Show and National Award Winning GSPs
www.ShombergGSP.com
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.
Leita Estes
Shortales German Shorthaired Pointers
And 1 Spotty dog (Dalmatian) Ch. Merry Go Rounds Match Point
Choose the right car based on your needs.
Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.
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shomberg2
MH
Posts:120
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| 07/19/2007 2:26 PM |
|
|
Bruce,
I have never heard of it being referred to as a "white blocker" but indeed
there are dogs that are homozygous for solid liver just as there are those for
other specific colorations in other breed. A dog can be the same for solid black
as well. I wish that I could say that I am well versed on genetics to the point
that I could make statements with more certainty but I cannot. Sorry too, Cathy,
that I apparently offended you by making a statement that insinuated that you
didn't understand DNA. That wasn't my intention. I was only saying that I am not
aware of any specific test myself that designates a marker for color
but...... I am quite sure they do exist as science is making great strides
in these areas every day.
As for the comment by Cathy about doing a better job of educating judges,
we surely are attempting to do that with our breed seminars, which are now far
better than ever before thanks to our Power Point program. Having done
these now for several years I can assure that that we make every effort to
ensure that new judges fully understand every aspect of this breed.
However......it also boils down to the 'ol adage of "you can lead a horse to
water but you can't make him drink" and there are some people and judges out
there ( yes, I know you'll find it hard to believe ) but......they think they
already are experts.
Yup.....they do ) And you can have them in a seminar and
talk until you turn blue. You will not change their minds and that is just a
fact. But.........we continue to try.
The very best thing we can do, in my own personal opinion, is to NOT
SUPPORT THESE JUDGES by giving them an entry if they continue to openly
disregard our standard and the dogs exhibited to them that are well
within our breed standard as it is written. And then
too.........sometimes it is a matter of learning your judges; not necessarily
whether they are partial to a particular color alone but whether they
are drawn to the "style" of dog that you bring to them. That too can cause
them to either choose your dog or someone elses' on any given day. It isn't
always about color and I say this in all honesty after all of these years of
doing this.
With regard to breeders and exhibitors not understanding the inheritance of
coat color, I can tell you that I know of a longtime, very well known
breeder who is known nationally that still does not understand that you cannot
breed two dogs that are liver, white and ticked and not get solid liver because
a solid liver was in a preceeding generation. Now you ask "how could this be
?". Well.........I don't fully understand myself how this
person could be this dense but......she/he just doesn't get it; pure and
simple. And I am told that she has actually passed over breedings because she
was afraid that a particular one might produce solid liver and she doesn't want
any part of it. Fine by me There have been numerous people who
have attempted to explain it but to this breeder but to no avail. The
bottom line is that no amount of educating will work if you have someone who is
unwilling to learn or maybe just unable to comprehend it. And if we have trouble
getting a longtime GSP breeder to grasp it, then how do we do it with others who
have far less time in our breed ? It ain't easy folks !!!
Sharon
Sharon & Steve Dattilio
"Shomberg" , AKC
Reg.
Breeders of Multiple Best In Show and National Award Winning
GSPs
www.ShombergGSP.com
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