Tho I know Rick hates "I agree" emails, I have to add my agreement with your comments tonite  Even though I belong to a local gsp club, we don't always agree on choices. That, added to several friends living far from clubs and club membership who currently are totally disenfranchised in the voting process...well.    JMNSHO. 

From: Karen Detterich
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] NSS Judges 2000 - 2009
To: "GSP List"
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 9:24 PM

Hello, All,

Again, IMHO, all members in good standing, by right of paying their dues and joining the GSPC of America, should be entitled to nominate and vote for all National judging assignments.  The GSPCA voting members are adults... they are entitled to have their voices (votes) heard, whether or not more "experienced" people feel they are capable of making "informed decisions".  They would not be REQUIRED to nominate or vote. They are free to make their own decisions, and are able to ask others they respect for info about the judges, if they want to. Those members who do not participate by nominating and voting for judges would not be represented, but that would be their prerogative, and ultimately their own responsibility, if they didn't like the ballot results.

Hey, I'm just one member with an opinion... so that's my 2 cents worth...  good luck to those charged with figuring out changes to make to the current system! 

Karen Detterich




Unsubscribing: To unsubscribe from the list, send an email message in PLAIN TEXT to gsp-l-request@web.whc.net with message text of "unsubscribe gsp-l you@email.add" (replace the email address with yours, don't include the quotes and note it is a lower case L after the dash in gsp-l).

From: norman.wood
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] NSS Judges 2000 - 2009
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 5:42 AM

I think Bev is making a good point here about Judge knowledge. I too am new
to showing this breed, and am not comfortable voting for a Judge that I'm
not familiar with. I also think that it's best when I don't exercise my
right to vote in this situation. I think we can all agree that if someone
doesn't know the Judges they should not vote.
I think there should be a way to educate newbies as to Judges that are
considered for the Nationals, am I asking for too much??

-------Original Message-------

From: Beverly Quarles
Date: 09/10/09 23:10:44
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] NSS Judges 2000 - 2009

So I am fairly new to the breed and have been following this discussion as I
attended my first National this year. I am not going to pretend to know all
the judges and who is good and who isn’t although I have my opinion about
some as I have now been showing in conformation for about 2 years. I would
love it if there was a way for us to get judges that would put the best dog
that day up and not the handler or breeder or whatever. That however is not
why I am posting. I wanted to comment on the concept of online voting. There
is a way to make sure everyone only gets one vote, but it is not email or IP
address. Many of us have multiple emails, one for work, one for home, one
for buying things online, etc. If you have a DSL account you will have a
primary or main address and then you will have some number of sub accounts
that you can setup. You may also have Hotmail, gmail, etc accounts. Cable
works the same way. Same thing for IP addresses. If you have more than one
computer, you have multiple addresses. That said, it is not hard to setup a
database that will check you are who you say you are and you are only voting
once. You get people to register with name, address, etc in much the same
way your bank validates you are the account holder, verify it against the
membership list, then you get to vote and the database will validate and
track who has voted and can prevent people from voting more than once.
Depending on how picky you want to get, there is even security software that
takes it even further. The message though is it is doable and it is not that
hard.

My other comment is about why people may not vote. In my case I did not feel
knowledgeable enough at first. Even now there a judges I am not familiar
with and as such I do not feel qualified to vote for or against them. I am
also not one to vote for someone because “my breeder” said that I should.
Whether I am voting for president or a judge for the NSS I feel it is
imperative that I understand who or what I am voting for. Otherwise I will
abstain from voting which is what I did when I first became a member of the
GSPCA 5 years ago when I got my first GSP. I am now becoming much more
familiar with the judges and people in the show world and I am now
comfortable expressing my opinion in a vote. That said it does take some
time to learn the judges and the world of dogs and for me it took several
years as I did not show consistently or outside of my general area at first.
I am not sure how you educate novice people on the judges because experience
alone does not make the judge. Would judges be willing to write a small
essay about why they want to judge our Nationals and why they think they are
qualified? It would be like the candidates for officer for our club writing
emails to the voters. I like hearing from the candidates. It helps me make
up my mind especially if I do not know the person personally.

Bev Quarles
The Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo) and the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo)
Yellow Rose German Shorthaired Pointers
"..It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless
minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." --Samuel Adams



From: gsp-l-request@web.whc.net [mailto:gsp-l-request@web.whc.net] On Behalf
Of wyndbournegsp@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:37 PM
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] NSS Judges 2000 - 2009

How does one monitor who has been on the survey? E-mail addresses?? In order
to avoid dupilicates.

Sue





Nt: Thu, Sep 10, 2009 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] NSS Judges 2000 - 2009
Perhaps an option for voting is to use an online tool such as SurveyMonkey.
It's a free application where you can creatively design a survey, send
online reminders to those who haven't completed it and download results, etc
I'm simplifying it as it has many more options. We use it where I work for
a variety of surveys and people really like it and we tend to get a good
response rate.

What we did at our local gsp club is give members an option for a variety of
matters - newsletter, club meeting notices, etc.- those with online access
versus those who want snail mail. Perhaps the parent club can do something
like that and offer a paper survey option for those without email. I'm
confident you'd get more than 37 responses with an online quick point and
click survey and still a solution for those without computer access.

Just a thought and an option to explore if there is any interest.



Diane Prohaska
Norwalk, CT



In a message dated 9/10/2009 7:19:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Shannondog@aol.com writes:
Arvind
I would like to clear the point of my intentions as to trying to devise a
new system. I first thought of this several years ago when I learned that
only 37 people had returned the ballots for the national judges. 37 people
were responsible for picking the judge. Now, I do know that if the
membership wants to have a say, they need to take responsibility for filling
out the form and returning it. So after thinking about if for a while, I
thought maybe it's because this all comes out around the holidays. People
are busy, there is actually a life other than dogs, and by the time they get
through it, the deadline has passed. The following May, I came up with the
ballot box at the Nationals. What better way to get a good response then
have it at the Nationals when people are thinking about judges and who they
would like. We got a tremendous response. The largest we have ever had.
However, this year I had to walk arou! nd handing out sheets to people and
asking them to complete it, put it in the envelope, and stick it in the box.

I have no agenda other then trying to find some way, to get a bigger
response from the membership.
Patty






Unsubscribing: To unsubscribe from the list, send an email message in PLAIN TEXT to gsp-l-request@web.whc.net with message text of "unsubscribe gsp-l you@email.add" (replace the email address with yours, don't include the quotes and note it is a lower case L after the dash in gsp-l).

From: norman.wood
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] NSS Judges 2000 - 2009
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 6:51 AM

I think this is a great idea, and yes I rely a lot on infodog. I hear that
not all parts of the Country have access to infodog??

From: norman.wood
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] NSS Judges 2000 - 2009
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 4:51 AM

I think this is a great idea, and yes I rely a lot on infodog. I hear that
not all parts of the Country have access to infodog??

-------Original Message-------

From: Phyllis McNall
Date: 9/11/2009 8:47:43 AM
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] NSS Judges 2000 - 2009

Initially, to nominate a judge or judges, probably yes. There are bios
available on AKC judges located at www.infodog.com and I'm thinking you
probably are keeping some sort of record as to which judges you've shown to
did what, so that will be a starting point. Just as initially when you are
entering an individual show you have to decide if a certain judge will look
beyond the other end of the lead, so too will this be an individual choice.

As it is currently, once the top 5 judges are selected, their biographies
are sent to each of the clubs for their members' input and discussion prior
to the NSS delegates' meeting. That is where the individual GSPCA member who
belongs to no local club loses the connection.

Many of us are, or have been club delegates, and don't stop to think that
the average GSP owner won't necessarily have access to this information. If
the voting could be online then the bios could be scanned and also posted
online at gspca.org. (I think Survey Monkey is an ideal choice, my
Department (NMALTSD) uses it often to determine employee feelings and
trends).

Phyllis McNall***Singltrak Shorthairs
Las Cruces, New Mexico
"Look To The Past, Breed For The Future"
http://www.singltrakshorthairs.net


--- On Fri, 9/11/09, Norman.wood <norman.wood@att.net> wrote:


From: Norman.wood <norman.wood@att.net>
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] NSS Judges 2000 - 2009
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 5:42 AM


I think Bev is making a good point here about Judge knowledge. I too am new
To showing this breed, and am not comfortable voting for a Judge that I'm
Not familiar with. I also think that it's best when I don't exercise my
Right to vote in this situation. I think we can all agree that if someone
Doesn't know the Judges they should not vote.
I think there should be a way to educate newbies as to Judges that are
Considered for the Nationals, am I asking for too much??

-------Original Message-------

From: Beverly Quarles
Date: 09/10/09 23:10:44
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] NSS Judges 2000 - 2009

So I am fairly new to the breed and have been following this discussion as I

Attended my first National this year. I am not going to pretend to know all
The judges and who is good and who isn’t although I have my opinion about
Some as I have now been showing in conformation for about 2 years. I would
Love it if there was a way for us to get judges that would put the best dog
That day up and not the handler or breeder or whatever. That however is not
Why I am posting. I wanted to comment on the concept of online voting. There

Is a way to make sure everyone only gets one vote, but it is not email or IP

Address. Many of us have multiple emails, one for work, one for home, one
For buying things online, etc. If you have a DSL account you will have a
Primary or main address and then you will have some number of sub accounts
That you can setup. You may also have Hotmail, gmail, etc accounts. Cable
Works the same way. Same thing for IP addresses. If you have more than one
Computer, you have multiple addresses. That said, it is not hard to setup a
Database that will check you are who you say you are and you are only voting

Once. You get people to register with name, address, etc in much the same
Way your bank validates you are the account holder, verify it against the
Membership list, then you get to vote and the database will validate and
Track who has voted and can prevent people from voting more than once.
Depending on how picky you want to get, there is even security software that

Takes it even further. The message though is it is doable and it is not that

Hard.

My other comment is about why people may not vote. In my case I did not feel

Knowledgeable enough at first. Even now there a judges I am not familiar
With and as such I do not feel qualified to vote for or against them. I am
Also not one to vote for someone because “my breeder” said that I should.
Whether I am voting for president or a judge for the NSS I feel it is
Imperative that I understand who or what I am voting for. Otherwise I will
abstain from voting which is what I did when I first became a member of the
GSPCA 5 years ago when I got my first GSP. I am now becoming much more
familiar with the judges and people in the show world and I am now
comfortable expressing my opinion in a vote. That said it does take some
time to learn the judges and the world of dogs and for me it took several
years as I did not show consistently or outside of my general area at first.

I am not sure how you educate novice people on the judges because experience

alone does not make the judge. Would judges be willing to write a small
essay about why they want to judge our Nationals and why they think they are

qualified? It would be like the candidates for officer for our club writing
emails to the voters. I like hearing from the candidates. It helps me make
up my mind especially if I do not know the person personally.

Bev Quarles
The Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo) and the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo)
Yellow Rose German Shorthaired Pointers
"..It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless
minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." --Samuel Adams



From: gsp-l-request@web.whc.net [mailto:gsp-l-request@web.whc.net] On Behalf

Of wyndbournegsp@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:37 PM
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] NSS Judges 2000 - 2009

How does one monitor who has been on the survey? E-mail addresses?? In order

to avoid dupilicates.

Sue





Nt: Thu, Sep 10, 2009 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] NSS Judges 2000 - 2009
Perhaps an option for voting is to use an online tool such as SurveyMonkey.
It's a free application where you can creatively design a survey, send
online reminders to those who haven't completed it and download results, etc

I'm simplifying it as it has many more options. We use it where I work for
a variety of surveys and people really like it and we tend to get a good
response rate.

What we did at our local gsp club is give members an option for a variety of

matters - newsletter, club meeting notices, etc.- those with online access
versus those who want snail mail. Perhaps the parent club can do something
like that and offer a paper survey option for those without email. I'm
confident you'd get more than 37 responses with an online quick point and
click survey and still a solution for those without computer access.

Just a thought and an option to explore if there is any interest.



Diane Prohaska
Norwalk, CT



In a message dated 9/10/2009 7:19:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Shannondog@aol.com writes:
Arvind
I would like to clear the point of my intentions as to trying to devise a
new system. I first thought of this several years ago when I learned that
only 37 people had returned the ballots for the national judges. 37 people
were responsible for picking the judge. Now, I do know that if the
membership wants to have a say, they need to take responsibility for filling

out the form and returning it. So after thinking about if for a while, I
thought maybe it's because this all comes out around the holidays. People
are busy, there is actually a life other than dogs, and by the time they get

through it, the deadline has passed. The following May, I came up with the
ballot box at the Nationals. What better way to get a good response then
have it at the Nationals when people are thinking about judges and who they
would like. We got a tremendous response. The largest we have ever had.
However, this year I had to walk arou! nd handing out sheets to people and
asking them to complete it, put it in the envelope, and stick it in the box.


I have no agenda other then trying to find some way, to get a bigger
response from the membership.
Patty






Unsubscribing: To unsubscribe from the list, send an email message in PLAIN
TEXT to gsp-l-request@web.whc.net with message text of "unsubscribe gsp-l
you@email.add" (replace the email address with yours, don't include the
quotes and note it is a lower case L after the dash in gsp-l).





Unsubscribing: To unsubscribe from the list, send an email message in PLAIN TEXT to gsp-l-request@web.whc.net with message text of "unsubscribe gsp-l you@email.add" (replace the email address with yours, don't include the quotes and note it is a lower case L after the dash in gsp-l).

From: norman.wood
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] NSS Judges 2000 - 2009
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:42 AM

I think Bev is making a good point here about Judge knowledge. I too am new
to showing this breed, and am not comfortable voting for a Judge that I'm
not familiar with. I also think that it's best when I don't exercise my
right to vote in this situation. I think we can all agree that if someone
doesn't know the Judges they should not vote.
I think there should be a way to educate newbies as to Judges that are
considered for the Nationals, am I asking for too much??

-------Original Message-------

From: Beverly Quarles
Date: 09/10/09 23:10:44
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] NSS Judges 2000 - 2009

So I am fairly new to the breed and have been following this discussion as I
attended my first National this year. I am not going to pretend to know all
the judges and who is good and who isn’t although I have my opinion about
some as I have now been showing in conformation for about 2 years. I would
love it if there was a way for us to get judges that would put the best dog
that day up and not the handler or breeder or whatever. That however is not
why I am posting. I wanted to comment on the concept of online voting. There
is a way to make sure everyone only gets one vote, but it is not email or IP
address. Many of us have multiple emails, one for work, one for home, one
for buying things online, etc. If you have a DSL account you will have a
primary or main address and then you will have some number of sub accounts
that you can setup. You may also have Hotmail, gmail, etc accounts. Cable
works the same way. Same thing for IP addresses. If you have more than one
computer, you have multiple addresses. That said, it is not hard to setup a
database that will check you are who you say you are and you are only voting
once. You get people to register with name, address, etc in much the same
way your bank validates you are the account holder, verify it against the
membership list, then you get to vote and the database will validate and
track who has voted and can prevent people from voting more than once.
Depending on how picky you want to get, there is even security software that
takes it even further. The message though is it is doable and it is not that
hard.

My other comment is about why people may not vote. In my case I did not feel
knowledgeable enough at first. Even now there a judges I am not familiar
with and as such I do not feel qualified to vote for or against them. I am
also not one to vote for someone because “my breeder” said that I should.
Whether I am voting for president or a judge for the NSS I feel it is
imperative that I understand who or what I am voting for. Otherwise I will
abstain from voting which is what I did when I first became a member of the
GSPCA 5 years ago when I got my first GSP. I am now becoming much more
familiar with the judges and people in the show world and I am now
comfortable expressing my opinion in a vote. That said it does take some
time to learn the judges and the world of dogs and for me it took several
years as I did not show consistently or outside of my general area at first.
I am not sure how you educate novice people on the judges because experience
alone does not make the judge. Would judges be willing to write a small
essay about why they want to judge our Nationals and why they think they are
qualified? It would be like the candidates for officer for our club writing
emails to the voters. I like hearing from the candidates. It helps me make
up my mind especially if I do not know the person personally.

Bev Quarles
The Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo) and the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo)
Yellow Rose German Shorthaired Pointers
"..It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless
minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." --Samuel Adams



From: gsp-l-request@web.whc.net [mailto:gsp-l-request@web.whc.net] On Behalf
Of wyndbournegsp@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:37 PM
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] NSS Judges 2000 - 2009

How does one monitor who has been on the survey? E-mail addresses?? In order
to avoid dupilicates.

Sue





Nt: Thu, Sep 10, 2009 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] NSS Judges 2000 - 2009
Perhaps an option for voting is to use an online tool such as SurveyMonkey.
It's a free application where you can creatively design a survey, send
online reminders to those who haven't completed it and download results, etc
I'm simplifying it as it has many more options. We use it where I work for
a variety of surveys and people really like it and we tend to get a good
response rate.

What we did at our local gsp club is give members an option for a variety of
matters - newsletter, club meeting notices, etc.- those with online access
versus those who want snail mail. Perhaps the parent club can do something
like that and offer a paper survey option for those without email. I'm
confident you'd get more than 37 responses with an online quick point and
click survey and still a solution for those without computer access.

Just a thought and an option to explore if there is any interest.



Diane Prohaska
Norwalk, CT



In a message dated 9/10/2009 7:19:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Shannondog@aol.com writes:
Arvind
I would like to clear the point of my intentions as to trying to devise a
new system. I first thought of this several years ago when I learned that
only 37 people had returned the ballots for the national judges. 37 people
were responsible for picking the judge. Now, I do know that if the
membership wants to have a say, they need to take responsibility for filling
out the form and returning it. So after thinking about if for a while, I
thought maybe it's because this all comes out around the holidays. People
are busy, there is actually a life other than dogs, and by the time they get
through it, the deadline has passed. The following May, I came up with the
ballot box at the Nationals. What better way to get a good response then
have it at the Nationals when people are thinking about judges and who they
would like. We got a tremendous response. The largest we have ever had.
However, this year I had to walk arou! nd handing out sheets to people and
asking them to complete it, put it in the envelope, and stick it in the box.

I have no agenda other then trying to find some way, to get a bigger
response from the membership.
Patty






Unsubscribing: To unsubscribe from the list, send an email message in PLAIN TEXT to gsp-l-request@web.whc.net with message text of "unsubscribe gsp-l you@email.add" (replace the email address with yours, don't include the quotes and note it is a lower case L after the dash in gsp-l).