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Messages |
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NMK1GSP
SH
Posts:58
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| 07/16/2008 9:08 AM |
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-----Original Message-----
From: Sharon Asbell
To: Barbara D
Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 7:48 am
Subject: FW: [TFTs4Show] Fw: Group Realignment
Have any of you seen this???????????????????
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Subject: [CSPCAMembers] Group Realignment...
Because I am a little more closely involved with some of the delegates
on the Group Realignment Committee, I've volunteered to provide a recap
of what is going on in that area.
Firstly...if you contact AKC staff directly right now, they are not
going to confirm this proposal...because they can not. They will only
discuss items that are current rules, regulations, etc.
Secondly, there has been a lot of rumor and conjecture out there as to
what can or what will happen. I can assure you that NO VARIETY SPLITS
will be entertained in this proposal. AKC has been quite clear on this
subject for decades now. There will also not be a best of breed
competition involving those split varieties, sending only one to the
group.
Thirdly, MOST groups will be affected in some way with the new group
alignment proposal. There are many dogs that are in groups that do not
(nor have they ever) fit the profile of what the origin
al form/function
of the dog was meant to be. For instance - the Rhodesian Ridgeback is
currently in the hound group. It truly is a working breed - and they
are hoping to be put into the working group. Another hound in question
is the Basenji - looking at form/function - and it's ancient history -
it truly is not a hound, either - it would possibly go into the new
NORTHERN group. The Dalmatian is a working dog...like the Shar-Pei,
how it ever ended up with fluff and pom poms is beyond them, too.
There is a move to put the Standard Poodle back where it belongs in the
Sporting group. These are just a FEW examples. The group realignment
***WILL*** happen - they are in the final stages now, with parent club
involvement (input & voting, etc). The group system MUST change,
because they are not only becoming too unwieldly with their sizes...but
because there are dogs in each of the groups that simply do not belong
in the groups they have been previously assigned. We are literally
seeing history in the making - and it's a POSITIVE step!!
Fourthly, the proposed group system will be a ten group system. And
before you get all excited about it taking longer...IT WON'T. Same
amount of dogs...smaller groups. THE NON-SPORTING GROUP WILL GO AWAY.
Basically, the same amount of time. AT THIS TIME, the proposed groups
would be:
0 Sporting (Retrievers & Spaniels)
Sporting (Pointers & Setters)
Hound (Sight)
Hound (Scent)
Toy
Terrier
Working
Herding
Companion (dogs that have ALWAYS been bred specifically
for that reason, without the toy factor)
Northern (please see attached catalog sheet from a recent
show, as an example - not all breeds pictured...look closely at the
profiles of the dogs - NOT HEADS. It was pretty amazing to see these
dogs represented at this show...BTW.. .A Shar-Pei won Best in Show.
Another Shar-Pei won Best Veteran in Show).
Cyndi Skinner
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Showdobes1
Posts:11
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| 07/16/2008 9:40 AM |
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In UKC the Standard Poodle has always been in "Gun" dogs aka Sporting.
Needless to say that had me in an uproar, hehe, and then have the
poodles place first in group was very upsetting.
This last weekend, a Weim and my GSP finally managed to beat the Poodles
in group. Lot's of High Five was happening, lol.
Anyway, I am not sure what to think of these major changes in AKC groups.
If they want to do this then maybe they should also consider installing
a test, to see whether some of these breeds can even still perform the job
they were bred to do originally, like the European system has.
Mandy
RivendellGSP
GondorDobermans
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CathyYak
MH
Posts:963
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| 07/16/2008 9:50 AM |
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If the poodles are going to be in the sporting group, which of the field events for sporting breeds will they be eligible for? Field events are generally divided into pointers, retrievers and spaniels. Where do poodles fit? Retrievers?
AKC needs to consider both sides of the sporting dog when making these decisions. Hopefully our club's AKC delegate can bring this issue to the discussion on our behalf.
Cathy
-----Original Message-----
From: Showdobes1@wmconnect.com
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:26 am
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] [TFTs4Show] Fw: Group Realignment
In UKC the Standard Poodle has always been in "Gun" dogs aka Sporting.
Needless to say that had me in an uproar, hehe, and then have the
poodles place first in group was very upsetting.
This last weekend, a Weim and my GSP finally managed to beat the Poodles
in group. Lot's of High Five was happening, lol.
Anyway, I am not sure what to think of these major changes in AKC groups.
If they want to do this then maybe they should also consider installing
a test, to see whether some of these breeds can even still perform the job
they were bred to do originally, like the European system has.
Mandy
RivendellGSP
GondorDobermans
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Cathy Iacopelli
Claddagh Kennels
Long Island, New York |
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david.nauer
MH
Posts:125
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| 07/16/2008 10:02 AM |
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Standard Poodles already compete in AKC
Retriever Hunt Tests. At last years local conformation specialty (Columbine State
Poodle Club) I saw a puppy in Sweepstakes that were sired by a MH and the dam
was a SH, AKC titles – the poodle puppy didn’t win in sweeps, but
that was the parentage. Poodles can retrieve.
Dave
David Nauer
VoyagerGSPs
From:
gsp-l-request@web.whc.net [mailto:gsp-l-request@web.whc.net] On Behalf Of cathyyak@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008
9:39 AM
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] [TFTs4Show]
Fw: Group Realignment
If the poodles are going
to be in the sporting group, which of the field events for sporting breeds will
they be eligible for? Field events are generally divided into pointers,
retrievers and spaniels. Where do poodles fit? Retrievers?
AKC needs to consider both sides of the sporting dog when making these
decisions. Hopefully our club's AKC delegate can bring this issue to the
discussion on our behalf.
Cathy
-----Original Message-----
From: Showdobes1@wmconnect.com
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:26 am
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] [TFTs4Show] Fw: Group Realignment
In UKC the Standard Poodle has always been in
"Gun" dogs aka Sporting.
Needless to say that had me in an uproar, hehe, and then have the
poodles place first in group was very upsetting.
This last weekend, a Weim and my GSP finally managed to beat the Poodles
in group. Lot's of High Five was happening, lol.
Anyway, I am not sure what to think of these major changes in AKC groups.
If they want to do this then maybe they should also consider installing
a test, to see whether some of these breeds can even still perform the job
they were bred to do originally, like the European system has.
Mandy
RivendellGSP
GondorDobermans
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CathyYak
MH
Posts:963
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| 07/16/2008 10:11 AM |
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I would think that any breed in the sporting group should be eligible to compete for a DC title, in which case poodles would need to be eligible for field trials as well (I just checked and they are not). I wonder how many breeds in the sporting group now are NOT eligible to earn a DC title.
Cathy
-----Original Message-----
From: Nauer, David J (Dave)
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:45 am
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] [TFTs4Show] Fw: Group Realignment
Standard Poodles already compete in AKC Retriever Hunt Tests. At last years local conformation specialty (Columbine State Poodle Club) I saw a puppy in Sweepstakes that were sired by a MH and the dam was a SH, AKC titles – the poodle puppy didn’t win in sweeps, but that was the parentage. Poodles can retrieve.
Dave
David Nauer
VoyagerGSPs
If the poodles are going to be in the sporting group, which of the field events for sporting breeds will they be eligible for? Field events are generally divided into pointers, retrievers and spaniels. Where do poodles fit? Retrievers?
AKC needs to consider both sides of the sporting dog when making these decisions. Hopefully our club's AKC delegate can bring this issue to the discussion on our behalf.
Cathy
-----Original Message-----
From: Showdobes1@wmconnect.com
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:26 am
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] [TFTs4Show] Fw: Group Realignment
In UKC the Standard Poodle has always been in "Gun" dogs aka Sporting.
Needless to say that had me in an uproar, hehe, and then have the
poodles place first in group was very upsetting.
This last weekend, a Weim and my GSP finally managed to beat the Poodles
in group. Lot's of High Five was happening, lol.
Anyway, I am not sure what to think of these major changes in AKC groups.
If they want to do this then maybe they should also consider installing
a test, to see whether some of these breeds can even still perform the job
they were bred to do originally, like the European system has.
Mandy
RivendellGSP
GondorDobermans
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Cathy Iacopelli
Claddagh Kennels
Long Island, New York |
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killari
JH
Posts:34
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| 07/16/2008 10:34 AM |
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Poodles are being run in retreiver
events and have been very successful. Not all retreiver events are open to
poodles so they probably are not seen often and therefore many are not aware
that these hairy beasts that are seen in the ring can often be very good
gun dogs.
Jenniffer Howling
Killari
GSPs
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david.nauer
MH
Posts:125
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| 07/16/2008 10:36 AM |
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Cathy,
You are correct – Standard Poodles were
allowed to compete in AKC Hunt Tests starting in 1998, but cannot compete in
field events. Presently the Standard Poodle is in the Non-Sporting group.
Note that the Miniature and Toy varieties of the Poodle cannot compete in
AKC Hunt Tests.
I did a brief search on Spaniel and
Retriever field trials and believe the following present sporting dog breeds
are not eligible to compete in AKC field trials. PLEASE correct me if
someone knows otherwise:
The Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever
(e.g. “Tollers”) appear to be the only Retriever to be not allowed
in any AKC Field Trial type – probably because they “Toll”
rather than “retrieve”.
For Spaniels, the AKC “eligible breed list” for Spaniel Field
Trials include only American Cocker Spaniels, English Cocker Spaniels, and
English Springer Spaniels. This leaves out:
American Water Spaniel
Clumber Spaniel
Field Spaniel
Sussex Spaniel
Welsh Springer Spaniel
Note that the Irish Water Spaniel is
allowed to compete in Retriever Field Trials.
Let me know if anyone can confirm this,
because I’m not expert and this was a brief search.
So, if we all believe Sporting Breeds must
also be able to achieve the title of “Field Champion” to be in the
Sporting Group (and thus the Dual Champion status, and potentially the Triple
Champion status (a true TC is a CH / FC / OTCH – no GSP has ever earned
the title of “Triple Champion”)), then that criteria should also eliminate
the six existing Sporting Group members I noted above. I personally
disagree – whether a breed can enter Hunt Tests and/or Field Trials
should be up to that breed’s Parent Club’s judgment --
Cathy – not a personal attack, but I
want to get the facts out there. Hopefully these are the facts . . .
Maybe I’m wrong though ;-)
Dave
David Nauer
VoyagerGSPs
From:
gsp-l-request@web.whc.net [mailto:gsp-l-request@web.whc.net] On Behalf Of cathyyak@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008
9:57 AM
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] [TFTs4Show]
Fw: Group Realignment
I would think that any
breed in the sporting group should be eligible to compete for a DC title, in
which case poodles would need to be eligible for field trials as well (I just
checked and they are not). I wonder how many breeds in the sporting group
now are NOT eligible to earn a DC title.
Cathy
-----Original Message-----
From: Nauer, David J (Dave)
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:45 am
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] [TFTs4Show] Fw: Group Realignment
Standard Poodles already compete in AKC
Retriever Hunt Tests. At last years local conformation specialty
(Columbine State Poodle Club) I saw a puppy in Sweepstakes that were sired by a
MH and the dam was a SH, AKC titles – the poodle puppy didn’t win
in sweeps, but that was the parentage. Poodles can retrieve.
If the poodles are going to be in the sporting group, which of the
field events for sporting breeds will they be eligible for? Field events
are generally divided into pointers, retrievers and spaniels. Where do
poodles fit? Retrievers?
AKC needs to consider both sides of the sporting dog when making these
decisions. Hopefully our club's AKC delegate can bring this issue to the
discussion on our behalf.
Cathy
-----Original Message-----
From: Showdobes1@wmconnect.com
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:26 am
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] [TFTs4Show] Fw: Group Realignment
In UKC the Standard Poodle has always been in
"Gun" dogs aka Sporting.
Needless to say that had me in an uproar, hehe, and then have the
poodles place first in group was very upsetting.
This last weekend, a Weim and my GSP finally managed to beat the Poodles
in group. Lot's of High Five was happening, lol.
Anyway, I am not sure what to think of these major changes in AKC groups.
If they want to do this then maybe they should also consider installing
a test, to see whether some of these breeds can even still perform the job
they were bred to do originally, like the European system has.
Mandy
RivendellGSP
GondorDobermans
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CathyYak
MH
Posts:963
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| 07/16/2008 10:44 AM |
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David,
You are certainly free to disagree! I just think that sporting breeds should be able to prove their sporting abilities.
I would wonder why these breeds are not eligible to participate in field trials and compete for a DC title. I wonder if the parent clubs have given up on field ability in these breeds?
American Water Spaniel
Clumber Spaniel
Field Spaniel
Sussex Spaniel
Welsh Springer Spaniel
Unfortunately, I don't wonder enough to make calls and do research. I am way too busy this week and really should not even be reading or writing emails  . Back to work now.
Cathy
-----Original Message-----
From: Nauer, David J (Dave)
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2008=2
012:22 pm
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] [TFTs4Show] Fw: Group Realignment
Cathy,
You are correct 0 Standard Poodles were allowed to compete in AKC Hunt Tests starting in 1998, but cannot compete in field events. Presently the Standard Poodle is in the Non-Sporting group. Note that the Miniature and Toy varieties of the Poodle cannot compete in AKC Hunt Tests.
I did a brief search on Spaniel and Retriever field trials and believe the following present sporting dog breeds are not eligible to compete in AKC field trials. PLEASE correct me if someone knows otherwise:
The Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever (e.g. “Tollers”) appear to be the only Retriever to be not allowed in any AKC Field Trial type – probably because they “Toll” rather than “retrieve”.
For Spaniels, the AKC “eligible breed list” for Spaniel Field Trials include only American Cocker Spaniels, English Co
cker Spaniels, and English Springer Spaniels. This leaves out:
American Water Spaniel
Clumber Spaniel
Field Spaniel
Sussex Spaniel
Welsh Springer Spaniel
Note that the Irish Water Spaniel is allowed to compete in Retriever Field Trials.
Let me know if anyone can confirm this, because I’m not expert and this was a brief search.
So, if we all believe Sporting Breeds must also be able to achieve the title of “Field Champion” to be in the Sporting Group (and thus the Dual Champion status, and potentially the Triple Champion status (a true TC is a CH / FC / OTCH – no GSP has ever earned the title of “Triple Champion”)), then that criteria should also eliminate the six existing Sporting Group members I noted above. I personally disagree – whether a breed can enter Hunt Tests and/or Field Trials should be up to that breed’s Parent Club’s judgment --
Cathy – not a personal attack, but I want to get the facts out there. Hopefully these are the facts . . .
Maybe I’m wrong though ;-)
Dave
David Nauer
VoyagerGSPs
I would think that any breed in the sporting group should be eligible to compete for a DC title, in which case poodles would need to be eligible for field trials as well (I just checked and they are not). I wonder how many breeds in the sporting group now are NOT eligible to earn a DC title.
Cathy
-----Original Message-----
From: Nauer, David J (Dave) <david.nauer@verizonbusiness.com>
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:45 am
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] [TFTs4Show] Fw: Group Realignment
Standard Poodles already compete in AKC Retriever Hunt Tests. At last years local conformation specialty (Columbine State Poodle Club) I saw a puppy in Sweepstakes that were sired by a20MH and the dam was a SH, AKC titles – the poodle puppy didn’t win in sweeps, but that was the parentage. Poodles can retrieve.
If the poodles are going to be in the sporting group, which of the field events for sporting breeds will they be eligible for? Field events are generally divided into pointers, retrievers and spaniels. Where do poodles fit? Retrievers?
AKC needs to consider both sides of the sporting dog when making these decisions. Hopefully our club's AKC delegate can bring this issue to the discussion on our behalf.
Cathy
-----Original Message-----
From: Showdobes1@wmconnect.com
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:26 am
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] [TFTs4Show] Fw: Group Realignment
In UKC the Standard Poodle has always been in "Gun" dogs aka Sporting.
Needless to say that had me in an uproar, hehe, and then have the
poodles place first in group was very upsetting.
This last weekend, a Weim and my GSP finally managed to beat the Poodles
in group. Lot's of High Five was happening, lol.
Anyway, I am not sure what to think of these major changes in AKC groups.
If they want to do this then maybe they should also consider installing
a test, to see whether some of these breeds can even still perform the job
they were bred to do originally, like the European system has.
Mandy
RivendellGSP
GondorDobermans
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Cathy Iacopelli
Claddagh Kennels
Long Island, New York |
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david.nauer
MH
Posts:125
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| 07/16/2008 11:14 AM |
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As an aside, there are three FSS breeds
that are eligible to compete in Hunt Tests so by extension are candidates, if “promoted”
to full breed status, for the current sporting group:
Boykin Spaniel
Irish Red and White Setter (scheduled to
be “AKC full breed status” and included in the Sporting Group
effective Jan 1, 2009)
Portuguese Pointer
The Boykin Spaniel and Irish Red &
White Setter are both presently in the Miscellaneous Class, so can compete in
that class in AKC Conformation also (they are not eligible for group
competition, although next January the Irish R&W Setter will be!). I
do not believe FSS & Miscellaneous Class breeds can compete in Field Trial
events. Does anyone know whether the Irish R&W Setter will be allowed
into Field Trials when they gain “full recognition”? I’ve
judged a bunch of different dogs in this breed already in Agility Rings (many
of the misc class and FSS breeds are eligible for companion events such as
agility) and they can be very fast and agile dogs. I’m sure many of
you have seen this breed at Pointing Breed Hunt Tests also.
Dave
From:
gsp-l-request@web.whc.net [mailto:gsp-l-request@web.whc.net] On Behalf Of cathyyak@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008
10:32 AM
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] [TFTs4Show]
Fw: Group Realignment
David,
You are certainly free to disagree! I just think that sporting breeds
should be able to prove their sporting abilities.
I would wonder why these breeds are not eligible to participate in field trials
and compete for a DC title. I wonder if the parent clubs have given up on
field ability in these breeds?
Unfortunately, I don't wonder enough to make calls and do research. I am
way too busy this week and really should not even be reading or writing emails
. Back to work now.
Cathy
-----Original Message-----
From: Nauer, David J (Dave)
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2008=2 012:22 pm
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] [TFTs4Show] Fw: Group Realignment
You are correct 0 Standard Poodles were
allowed to compete in AKC Hunt Tests starting in 1998, but cannot compete in
field events. Presently the Standard Poodle is in the Non-Sporting group.
Note that the Miniature and Toy varieties of the Poodle cannot compete in
AKC Hunt Tests.
I did a brief search on Spaniel and
Retriever field trials and believe the following present sporting dog breeds
are not eligible to compete in AKC field trials. PLEASE correct me if
someone knows otherwise:
The Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever
(e.g. “Tollers”) appear to be the only Retriever to be not allowed
in any AKC Field Trial type – probably because they “Toll”
rather than “retrieve”.
For Spaniels, the AKC “eligible breed list” for Spaniel Field
Trials include only American Cocker Spaniels, English Co cker Spaniels, and
English Springer Spaniels. This leaves out:
Note that the Irish Water Spaniel is
allowed to compete in Retriever Field Trials.
Let me know if anyone can
confirm this, because I’m not expert and this was a brief search.
So, if we all believe Sporting Breeds must
also be able to achieve the title of “Field Champion” to be in the
Sporting Group (and thus the Dual Champion status, and potentially the Triple
Champion status (a true TC is a CH / FC / OTCH – no GSP has ever earned
the title of “Triple Champion”)), then that criteria should also
eliminate the six existing Sporting Group members I noted above. I
personally disagree – whether a breed can enter Hunt Tests and/or Field
Trials should be up to that breed’s Parent Club’s judgment --
Cathy – not a personal attack, but I
want to get the facts out there. Hopefully these are the facts . . .
Maybe I’m wrong though ;-)
I would think that any breed in the sporting group should be eligible
to compete for a DC title, in which case poodles would need to be eligible for
field trials as well (I just checked and they are not). I wonder how many
breeds in the sporting group now are NOT eligible to earn a DC title.
Cathy
-----Original Message-----
From: Nauer, David J (Dave) <david.nauer@verizonbusiness.com>
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:45 am
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] [TFTs4Show] Fw: Group Realignment
Standard Poodles already compete in AKC
Retriever Hunt Tests. At last years local conformation specialty (Columbine
State Poodle Club) I saw a puppy in Sweepstakes that were sired by a20MH and
the dam was a SH, AKC titles – the poodle puppy didn’t win in
sweeps, but that was the parentage. Poodles can retrieve.
If the poodles are going to be in the sporting group, which of the
field events for sporting breeds will they be eligible for? Field events
are generally divided into pointers, retrievers and spaniels. Where do
poodles fit? Retrievers?
AKC needs to consider both sides of the sporting dog when making these
decisions. Hopefully our club's AKC delegate can bring this issue to the discussion
on our behalf.
Cathy
-----Original Message-----
From: Showdobes1@wmconnect.com
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:26 am
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] [TFTs4Show] Fw: Group Realignment
In UKC the Standard Poodle has always been in
"Gun" dogs aka Sporting.
Needless to say that had me in an uproar, hehe, and then have the
poodles place first in group was very upsetting.
This last weekend, a Weim and my GSP finally managed to beat the Poodles
in group. Lot's of High Five was happening, lol.
Anyway, I am not sure what to think of these major changes in AKC groups.
If they want to do this then maybe they should also consider installing
a test, to see whether some of these breeds can even still perform the job
they were bred to do originally, like the European system has.
Mandy
RivendellGSP
GondorDobermans
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escampbell
MH
Posts:213
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| 07/16/2008 1:28 PM |
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I do not know why some spaniels are not allowed in field trials, but I can confirm that Welsh Springer Spaniels cannot. When talking about dogs of various breeds who are Triple or even Quadruple Champions, my obedience instructor always points out that her "Welshies" do not have that option as they cannot earn a FC title.
I assume the other spaniels mentioned cannot either as it is my understanding that only the English Springer and American and English Cocker Spaniels compete in field trials. The other breeds most certainly can prove themselves in hunt tests. I believe the field trials for spaniels were dveloped specifically for those breeds.
I have no problem with dogs being in the sporting group who cannot compete in field trials, because they can compete in hunt tests. I mean, Cocker Spaniels can be field trialed and presumably do on occasion, but can we honestly say they are more "sporting" than a Welsh Springer?
Eleanor Campbell
NJ
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Eleanor Campbell
New Jersey
Sydney, Presto, Price, Ozma and Soleil |
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escampbell
MH
Posts:213
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| 07/16/2008 1:39 PM |
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Sorry, I forgot to add...some of the sporting breeds also offer Parent Club sanctioned working/hunting tests. These pre-date the AKC Hunt Tests and were presumably established as the parent Club felt it important for that breed's natural abilities to be maintained, at least to some degree. Welsh Springers (not allowed in field trials) can earn a "WD" just as while various retrievers such as Goldens and Flat Coats (allowed in field trials) can earn a "WC" or "WCX." So, I don't think we can assume that the parent clubs of breeds who cannot participate in field trials have given up on their natural abilities.
Eleanor Campbell
NJ |
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Eleanor Campbell
New Jersey
Sydney, Presto, Price, Ozma and Soleil |
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wyndbournegsp
MH
Posts:215
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| 07/16/2008 2:42 PM |
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Absolutely they can. Please get a hold of Annie Clark's book from her articles in dogs in review. it is called Annie on....Dogs. She wrote an article about the joys of watching her dogs work. It is a great book and easy reading.
sue Harrison
Wyndbourne
-----Original Message-----
From: Nauer, David J (Dave)
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:45 am
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] [TFTs4Show] Fw: Group Realignment
Standard Poodles already compete in AKC Retriever Hunt Tests. At last years local conformation specialty (Columbine State Poodle Club) I saw a puppy in Sweepstakes that were sired by a MH and the dam was a SH, AKC titles – the poodle puppy didn’t win in sweeps, but that was the parentage. Poodles can retrieve.
Dave
David Nauer
VoyagerGSPs
If the poodles are going to be in the sporting group, which of the field events for sporting breeds will they be eligible for? Field events are generally divided into pointers, retrievers and spaniels. Where do poodles fit? Retrievers?
AKC needs to consider both sides of the sporting dog when making these decisions. Hopefully our club's AKC delegate can bring this issue to the discussion on our behalf.
Cathy
-----Original Message-----
From: Showdobes1@wmconnect.com
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:26 am
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] [TFTs4Show] Fw: Group Realignment
In UKC the Standard Poodle has always been in "Gun" dogs aka Sporting.
Needless to say that had me in an uproar, hehe, and then have the
poodles place first in group was very upsetting.
This last weekend, a Weim and my GSP finally managed to beat the Poodles
in group. Lot's of High Five was happening, lol.
Anyway, I am not sure what to think of these major changes in AKC groups.
If they want to do this then maybe they should also consider installing
a test, to see whether some of these breeds can even still perform the job
they were bred to do originally, like the European system has.
Mandy
RivendellGSP
GondorDobermans
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david.nauer
MH
Posts:125
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| 07/16/2008 5:04 PM |
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Excellent book. Have read it and it is in
my personal library.
From:
gsp-l-request@web.whc.net [mailto:gsp-l-request@web.whc.net] On Behalf Of wyndbournegsp@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008
2:32 PM
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] [TFTs4Show]
Fw: Group Realignment
Absolutely they can.
Please get a hold of Annie Clark's book from her articles in dogs in review. it
is called Annie on....Dogs. She wrote an article about the joys of watching her
dogs work. It is a great book and easy reading.
sue Harrison
Wyndbourne
Standard Poodles already compete in AKC
Retriever Hunt Tests. At last years local conformation specialty
(Columbine State Poodle Club) I saw a puppy in Sweepstakes that were sired by a
MH and the dam was a SH, AKC titles – the poodle puppy didn’t win in sweeps,
but that was the parentage. Poodles can retrieve.
If the poodles are going to be in the sporting group, which of the
field events for sporting breeds will they be eligible for? Field events
are generally divided into pointers, retrievers and spaniels. Where do
poodles fit? Retrievers?
AKC needs to consider both sides of the sporting dog when making these
decisions. Hopefully our club's AKC delegate can bring this issue to the
discussion on our behalf.
Cathy
-----Original Message-----
From: Showdobes1@wmconnect.com
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:26 am
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] [TFTs4Show] Fw: Group Realignment
In UKC the Standard Poodle has always been in
"Gun" dogs aka Sporting.
Needless to say that had me in an uproar, hehe, and then have the
poodles place first in group was very upsetting.
This last weekend, a Weim and my GSP finally managed to beat the Poodles
in group. Lot's of High Five was happening,
lol.
Anyway, I am not sure what to think of these major changes in AKC groups.
If they want to do this then maybe they should also consider installing
a test, to see whether some of these breeds can even still perform the job
they were bred to do originally, like the European system has.
Mandy
RivendellGSP
GondorDobermans
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bajnok
MH
Posts:67
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| 07/16/2008 5:56 PM |
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The dogs I'd welcome in the sporting group, the
haute-coiffure...not!
Francois-R. Bernier
Bajnok Regd Vizslas &
GSPs
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 4:31
PM
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] [TFTs4Show] Fw:
Group Realignment
Absolutely they can. Please get a hold of Annie Clark's
book from her articles in dogs in review. it is called Annie on....Dogs. She
wrote an article about the joys of watching her dogs work. It is a great book
and easy reading.
sue
Harrison
Wyndbourne
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wyndbournegsp
MH
Posts:215
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| 07/16/2008 6:57 PM |
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the haute-coiffure...not!
No argument from me on that!
Sue
-----Original Message-----
From: François Bernier
To: gsp-l@web.whc.net
Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 6:44 pm
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] [TFTs4Show] Fw: Group Realignment
The dogs I'd welcome in the sporting group, the haute-coiffure...not!
Francois-R. Bernier
Bajnok Regd Vizslas & GSPs
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [gsp-l] [TFTs4Show] Fw: Group Realignment
Absolutely they can. Please get a hold of Annie Clark's book from her articles in dogs in review. it i
s called Annie on....Dogs. She wrote an article about the joys of watching her dogs work. It is a great book and easy reading.
sue Harrison
Wyndbourne
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karen_conrey
JH
Posts:21
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| 07/16/2008 8:18 PM |
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Ok... just imagine the Golden... the Irish... the Gordon... the English... and then... the Standard... all doing their go round in the group ring... now which hairy dog is the judge going to reward the handler for all that grooming that has to be done.... OH I know... judges always put up the best quality dog that represents their breed and not just because the dog has hair that took hours to groom out before coming in the ring!
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